Author: Chuck
Date: 20:18:53 12/08/99
Go up one level in this thread
On December 07, 1999 at 20:11:03, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On December 07, 1999 at 18:55:59, Chuck wrote: > >>On December 07, 1999 at 16:54:15, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >> >>>On December 07, 1999 at 14:22:19, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On December 07, 1999 at 00:01:08, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >>>> >>>>>On ICC, I often see computers winning games against strong players by >>>>>"unfriendly" means. Consider what happens when the position is dead drawn, >>>but the computer player does not realize this and makes an unending series of >>>>>aimless moves that drains the human opponent of time on his clock. It isn't >>>any secret that computers have "faster reflexes". This is boring and inflates >>>the apparent strength of the program. >>>>> >>>>>I propose that computer programs should offer/accept draws when the following >>>>>conditions hold: >>>>> >>>>>1) There have been no pawn moves or captures played by >>>>> either side over the past 10 ply played. Of course >>>>> the 50 move rule counter is perfect for this. >>>> >>>>This is total nonsense. I have seen _many_ games where no pawn move or >>>>capture was played over a 5 move (10 ply) stretch. This has _nothing_ to >>>>do with the game called "chess". >>> >>>Please explain why you consider this to be total nonsense. It is clear that >this >is reliable indicator of whether substantive change has taken place on >the >chessboard. >> >>I'm afraid I have to agree with Ricardo on this issue. It is certainly true that >>alot of drawn games are won "inappropriately" by computers. Think for a moment >>of such a game (we've all seen them) and how you'd react if you were the human >>and some other human were on the other side of the board being so stupid. If it >>were I, I'd be upset. I'm sure we'd have words. I don't think it's enough to >>give computers the excuse that they can't recognize the draw. Our goal should be >>to make them recognize the draw first. And actually, in real tournaments these >>days you CAN do something about, you can claim your opponent has insufficient >>winning chances. This should be implemented in programs, in some way, and it may >>vary considering the program and it's eval. But it should be done, 1st because >>it's not really fair or right, but even moreso, because it's really poor >>etiquette. >> >>And as far as the game of chess goes, when I start a game, I expect both myself >>and my opponent to obey certain rules of etiquette. > > >And this includes your opponent looking over at the clock and saying "Hmmm... I >have 4 minutes left, my opponent has 15 seconds left, I suppose I ought to offer >him a draw..." > >That's never happened in any fast game _I_ have ever played, on a server or at >a club... > >You get that far behind, you lose... I fully agree with you on this point. I have seen some programs that won't resign period if the opponent has say, less than 1 minute left. I can agree with that fully. But if the game is dead drawn and there are there is 3 or 4 minutes left on the clock, you could be asking the human to make a load of useless moves to hold the draw and try to hold his clock. No fun at all when the position is flat drawn.
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