Author: Ernst Walet
Date: 09:14:47 01/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 15, 2000 at 11:56:52, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On January 15, 2000 at 11:14:16, Len Eisner wrote: > >>On January 15, 2000 at 05:24:07, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On January 15, 2000 at 05:19:40, Bertil Eklund wrote: >>> >>>>On January 15, 2000 at 01:19:48, Len Eisner wrote: >>>> >>>>>In the following position Junior 6 plays 88…Rd3+ which wins (mate in 15), but >>>>>the simple g4 wins much faster (mate in 8). Why do the tablebases prevent >>>>>Junior from finding the fastest mate? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Len >>>> >>>>Hi! >>>> >>>>I think Enrique didn´t have the Turbo-CD´s in the beginning of the tournament. >>>>As far as I know, he have installed them now, >>> >>>You are right. >>> >>>Enrique >>> >>>>so Junior finds it now. >>>> >>>>Bertil >> >>Actually, the 5 piece endgame in question (KRB vs KP) is not included on the >>Turbo-CD´s. My guess is that Junior plays Rd3+ because it wants to simplify >>into a position contained in one of the 4 piece tablebases (KB vs KP), even if >>it is a much longer mate. >> >>You have to admit, Rd3+ looks bizarre when the simple g4 is available. What >>human master would play Rd3+? > >I guess none, but then again computer programs and GMs don't follow the same >thinking or computing process. Would a GM in the position below play 84.Kb4 and >announce mate in 19? Sure not, and Junior 6 did in the 13th game against >Shredder 4... > >Enrique > Shredder sees mate too, it uses the 4 piece tablebases in this analysis, for as much as it matters here. I guess that in your tournament the both use the same tablebases? adapting time! 5.19 0:01.08 +6.55 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bd5+ Kc8 Kxb5 (53.424) 49.2 5 -> 0:01.11 +6.55 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bd5+ Kc8 Kxb5 (55.524) 49.7 6.01 0:01.15 +6.87++ Kb4 Qg6 Qd7+ Kb6 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qc5+ Kd8 Qd6+ Ke8 Bd7+ Kf7 Qxg6+ Kxg6 (61.272) 53.0 6.01 0:01.16 +7.74++ Kb4 Qg6 Qd7+ Kb6 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qc5+ Kd8 Qd6+ Ke8 Bd7+ Kf7 Be8+ Kxe8 Qxg6+ Ke7 (61.329) 52.7 6.01 0:01.33 +9.69 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxg5 (76.300) 57.1 6 -> 0:01.54 +9.69 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxg5 (94.798) 61.2 7.01 0:01.64 +9.69 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxg5 (105.957) 64.6 7 -> 0:02.30 +9.69 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxg5 (183.534) 79.7 8.01 0:02.46 +9.69 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxg5 (207.679) 84.2 8 -> 0:03.71 +9.69 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxg5 (369.602) 99.5 9.01 0:03.73 +9.99++ Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Bc8+ Kxc8 Qc5+ Kd7 Qxg5 Ke6 (370.709) 99.2 9.01 0:03.74 +11.03++ Kb4 Qh1 Bd5+ Kd7 Bxh1+ Ke7 (371.293) 99.2 9.01 0:09.37 +11.03 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Ka7 Qc7+ Ka8 Qa5+ Kb8 Qb6+ Ka8 Qc6+ Ka7 Qb7+ Kxb7 Bd5+ Qxd5 c4 (1.414.938) 151.0 9 -> 0:11.18 +11.03 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Ka7 Qc7+ Ka8 Qa5+ Kb8 Qb6+ Ka8 Qc6+ Ka7 Qb7+ Kxb7 Bd5+ Qxd5 c4 (1.693.373) 151.3 10.01 0:11.21 +11.31++ Kb4 Qe8 Qc5+ Kb7 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qxe8 Kd6 (1.694.886) 151.1 10.01 0:11.22 +12.12++ Kb4 Qh8 Qxh8 Kd6 (1.695.471) 151.1 10.01 0:19.95 +17.70 Kb4 Qg5 Ka5 Kb7 Qd7+ Kb8 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qxg5 Kd6 Qd5+ Ke7 c4 (3.242.333) 162.5 10 -> 0:21.69 +17.70 Kb4 Qg5 Ka5 Kb7 Qd7+ Kb8 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qxg5 Kd6 Qd5+ Ke7 c4 (3.533.835) 162.9 11.01 0:22.21 +17.95++ Kb4 Qg5 Ka5 Qh4 Qxh4 Kc5 Qf4 b4 cxb4+ Kc6 Qf7 Kd6 (3.604.033) 162.2 11.01 0:23.97 +18.46++ Kb4 Qd5 Bxd5+ Kd6 Kxb5 Ke7 Qc5+ Ke8 Qc8+ Ke7 Qe6+ Kf8 c4 Kg7 Qd7+ Kf6 c5 (3.919.059) 163.4 11.01 0:39.43 +M21 Kb4 Kb7 Qd8 Ka7 Qa5+ Kb7 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qxh5 Kc6 (6.899.862) 174.9 11 -> 0:42.46 +M21 Kb4 Kb7 Qd8 Ka7 Qa5+ Kb7 Qxb5+ Kc7 Qxh5 Kc6 (7.430.310) 174.9 12.01 0:59.06 +M20 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Qd5+ Qxd5 Bxd5+ Kb6 Bf3 Ka6 Be2 Ka7 Kxb5 (10.469.203) 177.2 12 -> 1:16.25 +M20 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Qd5+ Qxd5 Bxd5+ Kb6 Bf3 Ka6 Be2 Ka7 Kxb5 (13.611.126) 178.5 13.01 1:24.85 +M19 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Ka5 b4+ Qd5+ Qxd5+ Bxd5+ Kb8 Kb5 (15.205.652) 179.2 13 -> 1:53.53 +M19 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Ka5 b4+ Qd5+ Qxd5+ Bxd5+ Kb8 Kb5 (20.602.916) 181.4 14.01 2:24.23 +M18 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Ka5 b4+ Qd5+ Qxd5+ Bxd5+ Kb8 cxb4 (26.224.029) 181.8 14 -> 3:34.17 +M18 Kb4 Qg5 Qd7+ Kb6 Qd6+ Kb7 Ka5 b4+ Qd5+ Qxd5+ Bxd5+ Kb8 cxb4 (39.408.237) 183.9
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