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Subject: Re: Cadaqués Tournament Shredder 4 - Junior 6.0 Game 4

Author: Len Eisner

Date: 09:32:23 01/15/00

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On January 15, 2000 at 11:56:52, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:

>On January 15, 2000 at 11:14:16, Len Eisner wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2000 at 05:24:07, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2000 at 05:19:40, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2000 at 01:19:48, Len Eisner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In the following position Junior 6 plays 88…Rd3+ which wins (mate in 15), but
>>>>>the simple g4 wins much faster (mate in 8).  Why do the tablebases prevent
>>>>>Junior from finding the fastest mate?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Len
>>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>>
>>>>I think Enrique didn´t have the Turbo-CD´s in the beginning of the tournament.
>>>>As far as I know, he have installed them now,
>>>
>>>You are right.
>>>
>>>Enrique
>>>
>>>>so Junior finds it now.
>>>>
>>>>Bertil
>>
>>Actually, the 5 piece endgame in question (KRB vs KP) is not included on the
>>Turbo-CD´s.  My guess is that Junior plays Rd3+ because it wants to simplify
>>into a position contained in one of the 4 piece tablebases (KB vs KP), even if
>>it is a much longer mate.
>>
>>You have to admit, Rd3+ looks bizarre when the simple g4 is available.  What
>>human master would play Rd3+?
>
>I guess none, but then again computer programs and GMs don't follow the same
>thinking or computing process. Would a GM in the position below play 84.Kb4 and
>announce mate in 19? Sure not, and Junior 6 did in the 13th game against
>Shredder 4...
>
>Enrique
>
> 8/8/2k1B3/1p5q/3Q4/1KP5/8/8 w - - 0 84
>
>
>>Len

That is impressive.

Junior 6 is a great program.  I got it a few days ago, and my first impression
is that it plays the most human-like game of all the programs available today,
including Hiarcs.  I completely agree with your assessment of it.

I know the unusual move in game 4 (Rd3+) was generated by the tablebases, not
Junior 6.  If the Turbo CD had a complete set of five piece tablebases, Junior
would have played g4 instantaneously. I also understand why Chessbase did not
include the KBRP vs. K tablebase.  It is an easy win for the stronger side, so
why dedicate a few hundred Meg of hard drive space to it.  The downside is that
you will sometimes see strange moves like Rd3+.

A human master would have resigned long before the position was reached anyway.

Len




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