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Subject: Re: Have You looked at Deep Blue logs?!

Author: Bas Hamstra

Date: 06:58:10 01/17/00

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On January 17, 2000 at 09:32:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 17, 2000 at 03:11:34, Jouni Uski wrote:
>
>>Yes stunnigly they are available at:
>>
>>http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/watch/html/c.html
>>
>>First thing I notice is, that search depth is not very convincing at all -
>>mostly 11-12 ply (also in endgame part)! Have I read log wrong way? Most
>>Chessbase engines got same ply in standard PC...
>>
>>Jouni
>
>
>It is a "different" kind of ply.  DB didn't use null-move of any kind.  They
>also used singular extensions which cause the typical chess ram to search
>1-2 plies less deep in the typical case, although it will probe much deeper
>in the traditional sense.  One other unknown is whether their 10 plies includes
>the 4 plies of hardware search.  They don't count total nodes that I noticed
>anywhere, so it isn't easy to decide.  For me, 1M nodes per second gives a
>depth of 13-14 in the middlegame.  Going 200M should drive that to roughly
>log3(200) which is about 5 plies deeper.  So call that 18-19 plies.  Removing
>null-move would subtract 2, so 16-17 plies.  Singular extensions 1-2 more plies,
>so that would be (14-15) to (15-16) plies.

I am not sure this is correct. Are you saying when Crafty searches 19 plies with
nullmove R=2, it must search 17 plies without nullmove? As far as I know without
nullmove and other pruning tricks your branching factor is 4,5 and with nullmove
it is 2,5. I don't think you can simply subtract R at any depth. I'm not sure
though. It's easy to test anyway...


Regards,
Bas Hamstra.


>Somewhere on their web site they mentioned 14 plies as "normal".  So their
>iteration number might be slightly different from "ours".  IE when I search
>until depth is reduced to zero, I go to the quiescence search.  They might
>go to their hardware, which is not exactly a "quiescence search" since it looks
>at all moves for 4 plies, but doesn't do any of the singular stuff and so forth.
>
>I'll try to ask next time I hear something from Hsu.



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