Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 18:22:29 01/19/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 19, 2000 at 17:23:13, Amir Ban wrote:
>On January 19, 2000 at 13:01:19, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On January 18, 2000 at 16:35:35, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>
>>>On January 18, 2000 at 16:30:15, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 18, 2000 at 10:32:51, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I noticed that sometimes Tiger keeps playing the same losing opening lines. In
>>>>>the match Tiger-Hiarcs, games 6 and 10 are D10 openings, identical until 14...
>>>>>e6, where Hiarcs shows an evaluation of 0.82 from its point of view. Tiger lost
>>>>>them both. Games 17 and 19 were A45 lines that immediately out of book Hiarcs
>>>>>evaluated as 0.57 in its favor. Again, Tiger lost both games. It seems that
>>>>>there is a learner problem that will allow Tiger to play repeatedly the same
>>>>>losing lines.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You are right Enrique. This is not a bug, I would rather call it a design flaw.
>>>>
>>>>I have written a simple learning algorithm because I did not want to invest too
>>>>much time in it. In fact I had almost no time to invest, so I have done my best
>>>>in a very tight schedule.
>>>>
>>>>My philosophy has always been to put my efforts on the real stuff: the engine
>>>>itself.
>>>>
>>>>But I'll have to work harder on the learning system, because as you have heard
>>>>recently, Junior6 is badly taking advantage of this (I have heard it has
>>>>repeated TWELVE TIMES the same won opening in one of the SSDF matches). :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>Looks like you'll be doing some comp-comp testing in the future. Welcome to the
>>>Core Wars saga.
>>>
>>>Dave
>>
>>
>>Not necessarily. All I need is a learning algorithm that really knows how to
>>avoid playing the same lost game twice, and maybe tries from time to time to
>>replay a won game. That does not imply I'm going to buy 10 computers and let
>>them play auto232 matches all day.
>>
>>Anyway I don't have enough money for that.
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>The easiest defense against learners is to put a random element in your search
>engine. If you think about it, that's not very different from what a wide book
>would do for you.
You are right, I should seriously think about that.
It might be a quick solution to this problem.
Does Junior use this?
As I said, I am reluctant to spend too much time in this. I think it is mostly
useful in comp-comp games, with very little benefit for the user. That's why I
did not implement agressive book learning (trying to replay won openings).
I think customers want us to spend more efforts in adding knowledge in our
engines than in specialized anticomputers algorithms.
Christophe
>I think this can solve about 80% of the problem. The 100% solution is to have a
>good book and a good learner.
>
>Amir
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