Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 08:32:35 02/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On February 17, 2000 at 11:18:12, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On February 17, 2000 at 11:02:40, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: > >>On February 17, 2000 at 10:39:28, Mig wrote: >> >>>Hello Everyone, >>> >>>This is Mig Greengard, also of KasparovChess.com and, by the way, the mystery VP >>>mentioned by my good friend, basketball star Shay Bushinsky. I thought I would >>>add some comments and clarifications to what was unquestionably a total disaster >>>and also a very emotional situation for Shay and Amir, as well as Mickey Adams. >>> >>>We've all been through about four hours of non-stop phone calls around the world >>>regarding this episode tonight. [Now last night, I wrote this late last night >>>but didn't want to post till I heard from Amir and/or Shay.] It was a lose-lose >>>situation for all concerned and Shay and Amir lost worse than the rest. >>> >>>Before I go on it's VERY important to me to say that GM Adams behaved at all >>>times in a very sportsmanlike manner and in no way insisted on anything >>>unreasonable at any time. I don't really expect the audience here to see things >>>from a human player's point of view (!), but I do wish to stress that he was >>>accomodating until things just got out of hand at a very late hour. >>> >>>Criticism, and there is plenty to go around, should be centered on >>>KasparovChess.com and our lack of proper documentation for the players. When >>>things broke down we had no real rule book to refer the players to, no list of >>>contingency plans or time limits for how long a communications breakdown should >>>be to be considered a forfeit, etc. So instead of simply referring to a rulebook >>>we had a nightmare of phonecalls and recrimination. As embarrassing as this poor >>>preparation is for me and all of us, I prefer it to seeing GM Adams undeservedly >>>criticized or rumors of conspiracy floated. >>> >>>As for human players, most of them are going to blame, and not necessarily >>>incorrectly, ANY AND ALL technology-related delays on us. That's because as >>>organizers we have an obligation to make sure things are working for each >>>player. If it's not, the levels of stress involved are not conducive to decent >>>chess, in a human. If both players had been human I believe everyone would have >>>had a different attitude. Discrimination against the machine? Probably, but as >>>it gets later and later, as nerves and five hours of tension build, a human is >>>at a severe disadvantage against a computer. Plus, it was Junior's connection >>>that went down. Adams, due to his ongoing match against Seirawan, was unable to >>>change dates without breaking his commitment to the organizers and sponsor >>>there, so really had no choice. Starting the second game at 7 p.m. with no >>>guarantee that there would be no further problems was not a serious option. >>>Eventually a deadline had to be set, he could not be expected to sit there >>>through dinner time on the edge of his seat waiting for the call to start play. >>> >>>I don't want to air KC's dirty laundry in public as such, but actually I think >>>this forum could be a good one to get more ideas about how to solve such things >>>in the future and I hope Shay and Amir won't mind my butting in here on their >>>home turf. Plus, I agree with just about everything Shay says, I just want to >>>provide the full picture. More below. >>> >>>On February 16, 2000 at 19:38:09, Shay Bushinsky wrote: >>> >>>>Dear people, >>>> >>>>At this moment, I regret to say that my own company has decided to >>>>discriminate our Deep Junior project and to declare >>>>Michael Adams at his insistence to be the victor of our match. >>>> >>>>This arbitrary decision was taken in spite of the ruling of the tournament >>>>official referee, Mr. Boris Postovisky, and was explained as the product >>>>of the inconvenience caused to Adams as a result of the delay incurred by >>>>our ISP slow connection which obviously was beyond our control. >>> >>>I really disagree with crediting Adams for insisting on anything. He was more >>>than willing to play the second game (and continue the first, he was not the one >>>who was cut off) until the delay ran into the evening. Unlike some of the >>>prima-donna GMs out there I found him very accomodating over the course of our >>>four phone conversations tonight. At the end he was simply hungry and tired and >>>wasn't going to play, and basically didn't understand that if his opponent >>>couldn't show up for two hours why he wasn't then forfeited. >>> >>>I should also add that due to the late hour in Russia IA Postovsky was not >>>present or observing the match in question and that due to his lack of Russian >>>Adams was unable to present his side of the situation. But of course playing the >>>game is always the best solution and if Adams wouldn't have been at such a large >>>disadvantage by the time things were ready, it should have been played. >>> >>>>In previous circumstances, when for instance Grandmaster Milos has disconnected >>>>for over 20 minutes during his game with Morozevich no forfeit was declared >>>>and the match was resumed. >>>> >>>>All above despite the fact that Mr. Adams himself had trouble connecting >>>>and the match was delayed for over 90 minutes mainly because of his >>>>computers not being able to connect. >>> >>>True, but the bottom line is that unless we consider them intentional delays, KC >>>as organizer has a responsibility to avoid these technical problems. I was in >>>Bermuda for his first match and all went well, and I take responsibility for not >>>leaving things in sufficient order for them to avoid problems in the second >>>round. We tested everything with that same computer and had no problems at all. >>>That's technology. And when both players are human, both are getting tired and >>>nervous; no advantage is being gained by a long delay. >>> >>>>This is a very low point in our career as developers of Deep Junior >>>>and we apologize to all our fans and to the spectators who expected us to >>>>play a decent match. >>> >>>Hey, Junior played a great match and everyone here knows it. And very few people >>>wanted to see you play Garry more than me. It would have been great to see and >>>incredibly great for the site. >>> >>>>It is a great embarrassment to the company I work for and to myself especially >>>>towards Amir Ban my partner and friend who is just an impartial participant in >>>>this event as any of the other players. >>>> >>>>Mr. Adams who initially agreed to our draw offer in the adjourned game (lost >>>>position for him) and was willing to continue and play a second game >>>>until he changed his mind and said that after speaking to a VP of our company >>>>was led to understand that he can claim a forfeit. >>> >>>Adams did accept the draw offer in the first game, and it will be recorded as a >>>draw. (He was of course completely lost, although Junior was exhibiting strange >>>time management as Amir mentions in his post.) The forfeit was the second game, >>>in which a delay of several hours took place. Adams never said he would continue >>>to wait all night and play whenever Junior was ready. He said he would play and >>>waited. By the time of the final phone call, and Carol Jarecki recorded the >>>clock times of the delays and many phone calls, it was almost two hours after >>>the first game was interrupted and he had just about had it. After four or five >>>rounds of calls by me to Shay in Israel and Adams in Bermuda, he said that he >>>wasn't going to play at all unless it could happen before 7pm (maybe it was 6pm, >>>I don't remember if we were talking NY time or Bermuda time). So I talked to >>>Shay again and asked how long it would take to get Junior back on the net and as >>>always he was honest and said he wasn't sure, that it could take 35 minutes to >>>get the modem installed, etc. He was the first to mention the word "forfeit" as >>>the potential consequence of the excessive delay. So when I talked to Mickey >>>again I said that in my opinion, if they couldn't get online before the hour it >>>would probably be considered a forfeit. No, I'm not an arbiter, but common sense >>>said that we couldn't expect him to sit there with no idea what was going on for >>>so long. Respect for all the players is very important. Adams in no way pushed >>>for a forfeit. >>> >>>In the end, I think seeing Adams play at that point, until nine at night or >>>later, and get slaughtered would not have left a very good taste in anyone's >>>mouth. And that assumes no further technical problems. If Junior's clock had >>>been ticking the entire time it would have lost game two on time. Of course it >>>wasn't Junior's fault, it worked great as Adams (and Illescas) found out. Amir >>>and Shay are clearly victims here, but no sword proved sharp enough to cut the >>>Gordian knot presented us. >>> >>>To sum up, please reserve your accusations and criticism for me and the rest of >>>the KC staff that never found the time to put together a comprehensive rulebook >>>that would have avoided the worst of this situation. The rulebook would have >>>something similar to "If one player disconnects for whatever reason and is >>>unable to resume play for XX minutes, that player will forfeit that game." >>>(Adjourning to another day would potentially be incredibly unfair depending on >>>the situation on the board and/or clock. Playing the next day was impossible in >>>this case regardless.) So Junior would most likely have been forfeited under the >>>rules. >> >>Adams would have been forfeited under the rules due to his inability to connect >>for over one hour in game 1. The fact that Junior had to forfeit and not Adams >>is incredibly unfair. > > >>This is done and beyond repair. As some sort of compensation, and in the name of >>fairness and general interest, how about Junior playing a 2 game match against >>the winner of Kasparov's Grand Prix? > >I bet for an additional 100k$ that is no problem It shouldn't be a major problem and I can't think of a better way out of this mess. Let's wait for what KC and Mig have to say. Enrique >>Enrique >> >>> But it is to our great shame that no such rule exists and that it took >>>something as horrible as this to get it done. >>> >>>Suggestions about what this rulebook should contain are welcome. Professional >>>chess does have a future on the internet, but we have a ways to go and a lot to >>>learn. >>> >>>Saludos, Mig >>> >>>VP Content & Editor-in-chief >>>KasparovChess.com >>>mig@kasparovchess.com
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.