Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 21:11:14 04/06/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 06, 2000 at 23:53:40, blass uri wrote: >On April 06, 2000 at 22:09:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: > ><snipped> >> A solution is known, >>and has been known for many years (store both DTC and DTM in the database.) > >I think that storing only DTC when storing draw if the DTC>50 is better. how does this help mate in 100 with conversion in 60, which turns into a draw by 50 move rule? > >>At present it seems to be more interesting to ignore this and get into 6 piece >>files (my ftp site now has 32 gigs of databases for public consumption)... but >>before long, the interest will switch to solving the mates for real, once we >>start getting table mates in 300+. At present the number of mates that violate >>the 50 move rules are very infrequent. In the 6 piece files they will become >>more common. In the 7 piece files more so... >> >>So one day, this problem will totally disappear as the databases will let us >>go for the shortest mate that lets us do a 'conversion' prior to the 50-move >>rule. I can see how DTC will solve the case of a mate in 80, as you only >>need one conversion to mate... but for mates in 200, I am not yet sure how to >>solve this, as you might have two moves at the root, one that says mate in 300, >>conversion in 48, the other says mate in 320, conversion in 47. But after >>the conversion in 47, you discover that the next conversion is 60 moves away >>and you are dead... > >In this case it is not conversion in 47 because the conversion leads to a draw >position. > >conversion in 47 is only if you can force a winning conversion in 47 moves. This is impossible to calculate. But 'conversion' has to mean pawn push or capture, to reset the 50-move rule. But it does need to be modified (this needs more thought than I have time for right now) so that if the conversion happens, but the resulting position is a forced draw due to 50 moves or repetition, then the conversion score is replaced by 'draw'... > > ><snipped> >>This is impossible. Because a computer can't 'touch' a piece.. If the operator >>makes the wrong move, no one wants to make the program have to live with that >>bad move... the CC events are all about computer vs computer, not computer >>vs computer with human mistakes influencing the outcome... > >Not all of them. >In the Israeli league I made the wrong move for Rebel because and the shredder >operator did not agree to let me take the move back and the rules said that I >have to live with the wrong move. > >Uri The rules there are broken. If a blind player tells his "operator" to play e4, but the operator plays d4, then the game is backed up to the point of error, according to blind player rules. ACM/ICCA has always used the same rule. As has USCF when computers play. If the Israeli tournament plays with different rules, they are the ones that are defining a new set of rules, not FIDE... or anybody else. It seems as though they want to make it as difficult as possible for the computer... no program changes although humans can study all they want. Etc... utter nonsense... So it isn't a surprise that they play 'touch move' for the computer, but not for blind players. :)
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