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Subject: Re: Ply Depth in Relation to Elo Rating

Author: Michael Fuhrmann

Date: 19:17:19 05/17/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 17, 2000 at 18:00:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 17, 2000 at 16:00:42, Joshua Lee wrote:
>
>>I was wondering the Ratings of the Different Mainframe computers of the past
>>like Deep Blue 1 and 2 and Deep Thought and how many ply they looked ahead?
>>Also What Clock Speed would a PC need to be equivalent? These below are what i
>>have found while the Processor speed if on a PC is my Guess.
>>
>>I have found different things on the internet. Here is my list:
>> Deeper Blue                1997   15 Ply  2817 (USCF)   200 Million NPS
>>2.048Thz
>
>The above is wrong, based on their output posted on their web site.  They
>were searching (typically) 10-11 plies in software, plus another 5-7 plies
>in hardware.  IE the very minimum depth they would see was maybe 15 plies,
>but more common numbers were 17-18.  Look at the IBM web site, under the
>Deep Blue section, and notice the depths, which are given like this:
>11(6).  That means 11 plies in software + another 6 plies in hardware, for
>17 plies total.
>
>
>
>> Deep Blue                    1996             12 Ply (*)14 Ply 2642(FIDE?)
>>(*2535) 100 Million NPS 1.024Thz
>
>See above.  DB2 was about 2x faster, although it had a much bigger evaluation
>than DB1.  The depths were fairly close, with DB 2 at best going 1 ply deeper.
>
>
>> Deep Thought II        1991                  6-7 Million NPS 64Ghz
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2009                    6.272.000-6.308.000
>>64Ghz
>> Cray Blitz T90              ????                  5-7 Million NPS
>
>Cray Blitz could hit this number on the T932, which was first delivered maybe
>5 years ago or so.  We didn't play many games, but did see search depths of
>11-12 plies in the middlegame...  We didn't use recursive null-move R=2 which
>would likely have added at least 2 plies to that figure.
>
>
>
>
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2008                     3.136.000-3.172.000
>>32Ghz
>> Deep Thought            1989                2480-2500 (FIDE) 2 Million NPS
>>20Ghz?
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2006                     1.568.000-1.604.000
>>16Ghz
>> Cray Blitz C90?          1995                  1.5 Million NPS
>
>About right.  depth of 10-11 plies.  the T90 added about 1 ply.
>
>
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2005                     784,000-820,000   8Ghz
>> Deep Thought 0.02    1988             2551(USCF) 2451(FIDE?) 750,000 NPS*
>>7.453Ghz
>> Deep Thought 0.01    1988              720,000 NPS
>> Chiptest-M                 1987              500,000 NPS
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2003               392,000-428,000 4Ghz
>> Hitech                          1995              200,000 NPS
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2001          196,000-232,000   2Ghz
>> Hitech                          1988 2413(USCF) 2363 or 2313FIDE   175,000 NPS
>> Hitech                          1985 2350
>> Belle                             1983 2263         160,000
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2000           98,000-134,000   1Ghz
>> Hiarcs 7.32                  2000 2660(LCTII)2460(FIDE EST) 87,000-123,000Nps
>>Middlegame
>> Chiptest                       1985               50,000 Nodes Per Sec
>> Belle                             1978
>>
>>                                   ELO and Ply Depth
>>                                      2650     15Ply
>>                                      2625     14Ply        Only this deep in
>>the Endgame         (Deep Blue in the            Middlegame)          This
>>Matches  elo - Ply
>>                                      2600    13Ply
>>                                      2575     12Ply      Deep Thought 1989
>>this Matches elo-ply
>>                                      2550    11Ply   Sometimes 11Ply in the
>>Middlegame
>>                                      2525    10Ply
>>                                      2500    9Ply           But Usually 8 or 9
>>                                      2475     8Ply    Hiarcs Looks atleast 8
>>Complete Ply in The Middlegame (this matches LCT II -200  (2690- 200 =2490)
>>                                      2450    7Ply
>>                                      2425     6Ply
>>                                      2400     5Ply
>>                                      2375      4Ply
>>                                      2350      3ply       Hitech 1988   However
>>this doesn't match up obviously not everybody is playing with the same Ply hehe
>>haha...
>>I've heard before how much doubling clock speed results in but it was an SSDF
>>thing(which must be atleast 150points too high??)   but against humans this is a
>>different story.
>>
>>Some of the things i've run across online have mentioned the experiments to
>>figure out ply in relation
>>to elo   they said sometimes 1Ply deeper meant like 80-192elo
>>and that knowledge meant 200-300 more elo   but i am not sure about this i just
>>want to hear other opinions.   Thankyou
>>
>>
>>
>
>doubling the cpu speed is generally said to produce 50-60 rating points.
>Since the typical effective branching factor is around 3.0, every time the
>speed is tripled, we get another ply, and using the 60 point figure above,
>a ply would be about 90 rating points, roughly.  But there is nothing that
>says that as we go deeper this doesn't taper off.  Nor is there anything that
>says that as we go deeper, the gain doesn't actually get larger...
>
>
Do you have a hunch which is true?

>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>*according to the Deeper Blue - Kasparov Match article in Chess Life
>>http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/book97/ch3/
>>http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/Hal/chap5/five4.html
>>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7378/comphis.htm
>>http://foxnet.cs.cmu.edu/people/spot/frg/Berliner.txt
>>see also Dejanews   search for FAQ WWW Hypertext Edition (rgc Groups FAQ)
>>In 1988 DEEP THOUGHT and Grandmaster Tony Miles shared first place in the U.S.
>>Open championship. DEEP THOUGHT had a 2745 performance rating. This matches up
>> 2745-180 = 2565
>>
>>In 1985 HITECH achieved a performace rating of 2530
>>2530-180 = 2350
>>
>>In 1983 Belle became the first computer to beat a master in tournament play and
>>the first computer to gain a master rating (2263)
>
>This is wrong.  Belle became the first program with an established rating of
>over 2200.  (2208 was the number.)  They were awarded the title "life master"
>by the USCF at the 1983 WCCC event in NY.  Cray Blitz beat a master in 1981 to
>win the Mississippi State Chess Championship.  The master it beat was Joe
>Sentef, and the game was published in Chess Life in late 1981 or early 1982.



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