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Subject: Re: Dream Program: AI Master Level Annotator. Possible?

Author: blass uri

Date: 05:04:25 07/04/00

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On July 04, 2000 at 06:56:07, Ralf Elvsén wrote:

>On July 04, 2000 at 04:28:36, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On July 04, 2000 at 02:34:55, Steve wrote:
>>
>>>On July 03, 2000 at 18:49:14, Torstein Hall wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not so sure that Junior will give better analysis than Fritz 5. They are
>>>>both fast searcher with about the same level of pos. knowledge. Anyway I feel
>>>>that all the programs give most tactical variations anyway, even Hiarcs 7.32,
>>>>considered among many as the most positional engine.
>>>
>>>I agree.  Hiarcs 7.32 is great, but its strength (just like every other
>>>engine's) is tactics.  Its analysis of endgames is often horrendous.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I rather go for Crafty! Its free, has more chess knowledge than most of the
>>>>programs and runs as a native chessbase engine!
>>>>
>>>>Torstein
>>>
>>>A number of people have made the same observation in this forum.  But whenever I
>>>play Hiarcs 7.32 against Crafty (running as ChessBase engine) -- generally at
>>>either G/30 or G/60 -- Hiarcs wins easily.
>>
>>The only game that I played Hiarcs7.32 against Crafty17.11 at 3 hours/40 moves
>>Crafty won and my observation was that hiarcs has a bug at time control that is
>>longer than G/30 or G/60 and this is probably the main reason that it failed in
>>the ssdf list.
>>
>>The bug is in playing and hiarcs could probably be a better program in
>>tournament time control if it knew to clear its hash tables after every move
>>because learning from previous search is bad if it is done in the wrong way.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I think you are too quick to draw conclusions. This "strange-moves-from-
>Hiarcs-that-can't-be-reproduced-by-others-bug" is well known, but how
>frequent is it? I have observed plenty of long time control games by
>Hiarcs 7.32 and it is very seldom I suspect this to happen. But who knows?
>I guess one would have to look carefully at every game afterwards. My
>personal quess is that keeping the hash tables is better, but I have
>no "proofs" .
>
>As to the strength of Hiarcs and Crafty, I have my own firm opinion
>but it is "unscientific" and I'll keep it to myself :)
>
>Ralf

The problem is mainly long time control problem.

Hiarcs won Crafty17.11 3.5:.5 in my 40/40 games on one pentiumIII450 but this
time control is faster than tournament time also because of the fact thatthe
sides cannot ponder when 3 hours/40 moves on one computer is similiar to 2
hours/40 moves on 2 computers.

There are cases when the problem does not lead to strange moves but lead to a
longer "think" by hiarcs and it also can cause later mistakes on time trouble.

In the case of the game that I played between hiarcs and crafty hiarcs did not
blunder by Bxb6 but needed a long time to avoid it(at longer time control it
even plays Bxb6).

Another move(move 39) could not be reproduced manually without playing and
hiarcs had some minutes for 2 moves so it has not time to find a better move

I see at least 2 cases when hiarcs had problems in the game because of not
clearing the hash tables so it seems not to be rare.

I found this problem also in another position that I analyzed.

Uri



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