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Subject: Re: How much further to go in Man-Machine?

Author: pete

Date: 15:56:41 07/15/00

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On July 15, 2000 at 16:58:40, Pete R. wrote:

>To take a different tack, I'm not particularly interested in the debate about
>whether DJ is GM strength or not.  When I can set up a position on my home PC,
>and it can tell me as well or better than Kasparov can what the best move is and
>*why*, in terms I can understand, then there will be nothing important left to
>do in computer chess.  But that's still a long way off, past the point when a
>home PC can supply enough horsepower to have a program beat the World Champ in
>match play.  Playing good enough to win and understanding chess as well as a GM
>are two different things.  And frankly from a commercial standpoint I'm more
>interested in training software that can do the latter, rather than just beat me
>up.
>
>In terms of DJ's performance, the question I'm musing about is whether a top of
>the line 8-way processor general purpose computer may be sufficient to do the
>job of beating humanity, subject to some lucky or brilliant tweaks in evaluation
>code.  In other words, is the matter of coming up with better positional moves
>in blocked positions, thwarting wing onslaughts, etc. a matter of putting in so
>much *more* evaluation code that an 8-way server can't do the job?  DB got
>around this by having massive amounts of eval parameters, all done in special
>hardware.  But the recent performances, warts and all, of top multiprocessor
>programs begs the question of how much more horsepower is really needed.  This
>is simply speculation of course, like most of these topics, but only the
>programmers would have a feel for whether they need another 1000 eval terms, or
>just better tuning.

To add another opinion :-)

Current results IMO prove that under certain circumstances "computer entities"
like the Junior one in Dortmund can reach GM-like results.

It is actually the first time this statement is beyond serious doubt as you can
simply point to the results ( and I am sure the next tournaments will head in
the same direction ) .

So I am happy this happens as this can lead the discussion to areas which are of
more interest to me :-)

Both the Fritz and the Junior results also show though that the question "Are
computers of GM strenght? " is not answered yet .

It is a little like the appearance of Sultan Khan in the 20s . A new kind of GM
entity arrives out of nowhere ( at least my impression when seeing the setup
some GMs choose against it or events like Huebner resigning after minor blunder
because being frustrated about a "computer move" ) .

Then we see Van der Wiel , Kramnik or Piket .

No program is really able to face this approach yet . So as humans learn and
computer programs will soon be more usual opponents to GMs in competition they
will take them more serious as opponents ( no : this thing is unbeatable or this
thing is dumb ) .

As you can reproduce just the same dumbness with every program I have seen so
far it seems humans should be able to adapt .

So : sure comps will rule sooner or later ; but I am not so sure it is as soon
as others think as going 2 plies deeper wouldn't have saved one of those games
it seems ( and 2 plies _is_ much ) .

Maybe approaches like the CSTal ones will sooner reach this level if someone
else heads into this direction too .

Only a very humble opinion for sure .

pete

PS : I really am looking forwards to the game against Adams . This should be a
test of my theory :-)











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