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Subject: Re: The big chess program's paradox: Programmers, reactions please!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 16:52:25 07/17/00

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On July 17, 2000 at 16:38:42, Jeroen Noomen wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>The Dutch championship and Dortmund have made one thing very clear: Computers
>still have no idea what to do in blocked positions and how to prevent or defend
>against a king's attack.
>
>IMO the situation is as follows, what I will call 'the big chess program
>paradox':
>
>1. I am programmer and wondering what to do about these
>   horrible king side attacks and blocked positions.
>
>2. I try a lot of extra knowledge and EUREKA, it works!
>
>3. Unfortunately there is a side effect: The NPS drops from
>   400 KNodes to 200 KNodes.
>
>This 'little' side effect makes me start thinking:
>
>4. If I make this program commercially available, it will
>   do bad against other programs. Why? Simple: I had 400 KNodes,
>   now I have only 200, so I am outsearched.
>
>5. If it scores bad against other programs, I get a very low
>   rating in Sweden and I score (probably) bad in tactical
>   positions.
>
>6. After this, all people reading magazines, visiting CCC and
>   playing computer programs will say: 'This is a bad program.
>   It scores bad, is slow and thus it is weak'.
>
>Conclusion: I, the programmer, will NOT do this. It's commercially
>not a good thing to do!
>
>And then I ask myself: Do I need more NPS versus humans? Is 400
>Knodes enough? Or do I fancy 4.000? What is the point against strong
>GM's to make it stronger in an aspect of the game (tactics) where it
>is already superior?
>
>Dear programmers, Christophe, Amir, Bob, Ed, Stefan and all others:
>I am very interested in your opinion about this matter!
>
>Jeroen


You have had my opinion for a couple of years.  I don't give much thought to
playing other computers.  I am _much_ more interested in the "GM problem" that
I have been seeing for so long.  This is why Crafty _is_ far slower today than
it was 2-3 years ago.  This is also why it is much harder to lock the position
up against it today than 2-3 years ago.  I have a long way to go, but I have
come a long way in detecting blocked positions.  My only real "hole" at
present is that I have told Crafty blocked positions are "bad".  I eventually
have to tell it "they are drawish" so that it will know to block things when
it senses trouble, rather than sensing trouble _and_ trying to open things up
at the same time...

It is a hard problem, but I believe it is solvable.




>
>
>PS  You want to know why I started loving Rebel and I still love it?
>Because it is far slower than the top programs, but KNOWS more about
>positional chess!



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