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Subject: Re: But Not Yet As Good As Deep Blue '97

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 14:25:57 07/19/00

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On July 19, 2000 at 16:43:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 19, 2000 at 15:09:48, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On July 19, 2000 at 13:47:49, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 19, 2000 at 08:25:32, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 18, 2000 at 22:00:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 18, 2000 at 16:26:08, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 18, 2000 at 11:05:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>I wouldn't begin to claim that DB "outplayed" kasparov in 97.  I do claim that
>>>>>>>it "beat" him, of course.  :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But in the above, the point is can you find any specific weakness in DB that
>>>>>>>would lead to GMs discovering that and beating it like a drum?  Can you find
>>>>>>>any weakness in Deep Junior that would lead to GMs discovering that and beating
>>>>>>>it like a drum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is the main difference I see.  We _all_ saw the king safety/blocked
>>>>>>>position problem in Dortmund.  We didn't see any such problem in DB'97.  It
>>>>>>>must have weaknesses.  But obviously no glaring weaknesses.  DB'96 had them.
>>>>>>>Deep Junior (and every other program) of 2000 has them.  DB'97 was something
>>>>>>>'different' in that regard, even though many want to pound their chests and
>>>>>>>say "mine is clearly and obviously better" or "it was just a fast/dumb machine."
>>>>>>>Both are far from truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I quote Garry Kasparov who told me that game 1 of the DB'97 match was "a typical
>>>>>>computer game". Deeper Blue showed gross misunderstanding of king safety and was
>>>>>>smashed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Amir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Why don't you quote him after game 2?  The picture 'changed'.  Or after game
>>>>>three where he was suddenly sure it was getting outside help it was playing
>>>>>so 'un-computer-like'.
>>>>>
>>>>>???
>>>>
>>>>He said it in exactly this context. He didn't understand what changed the naive
>>>>computer that played against him in the first game into what he saw in the
>>>>second.
>>>>
>>>>Amir
>>>
>>>
>>>It was the _same_ program, as we now know after hearing from the DB guys on
>>>several occasions.  So either he thought it was an idiot.  Or a chess savant.
>>>Or both.  However, after game 1, I didn't see Kasparov do any real anti-computer
>>>things that worked.  In fact, in game 1 it didn't work either...
>>>
>>>His comments were more on the order of excuse-making rather than informative.
>>>
>>>As far as "what changed the ...".  Perhaps his concept of "naive" is "I can beat
>>>it" and his concept of "something new and never seen before" is "something I
>>>can't beat"???
>>>
>>
>>Next time I talk to him, I'll suggest that he will contact you for chess
>>lessons.
>>
>>Amir
>
>
>Or at least suggest that he contact me for some training in manners and public
>relations.  :)
>

Yes of course. I forgot that you are an expert and a shining example in that
too.

Amir


>He needs _more_ help there...
>
>



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