Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: But Not Yet As Good As Deep Blue '97

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:43:44 07/19/00

Go up one level in this thread


On July 19, 2000 at 15:09:48, Amir Ban wrote:

>On July 19, 2000 at 13:47:49, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 19, 2000 at 08:25:32, Amir Ban wrote:
>>
>>>On July 18, 2000 at 22:00:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 18, 2000 at 16:26:08, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 18, 2000 at 11:05:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>I wouldn't begin to claim that DB "outplayed" kasparov in 97.  I do claim that
>>>>>>it "beat" him, of course.  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But in the above, the point is can you find any specific weakness in DB that
>>>>>>would lead to GMs discovering that and beating it like a drum?  Can you find
>>>>>>any weakness in Deep Junior that would lead to GMs discovering that and beating
>>>>>>it like a drum?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is the main difference I see.  We _all_ saw the king safety/blocked
>>>>>>position problem in Dortmund.  We didn't see any such problem in DB'97.  It
>>>>>>must have weaknesses.  But obviously no glaring weaknesses.  DB'96 had them.
>>>>>>Deep Junior (and every other program) of 2000 has them.  DB'97 was something
>>>>>>'different' in that regard, even though many want to pound their chests and
>>>>>>say "mine is clearly and obviously better" or "it was just a fast/dumb machine."
>>>>>>Both are far from truth.
>>>>>
>>>>>I quote Garry Kasparov who told me that game 1 of the DB'97 match was "a typical
>>>>>computer game". Deeper Blue showed gross misunderstanding of king safety and was
>>>>>smashed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Amir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why don't you quote him after game 2?  The picture 'changed'.  Or after game
>>>>three where he was suddenly sure it was getting outside help it was playing
>>>>so 'un-computer-like'.
>>>>
>>>>???
>>>
>>>He said it in exactly this context. He didn't understand what changed the naive
>>>computer that played against him in the first game into what he saw in the
>>>second.
>>>
>>>Amir
>>
>>
>>It was the _same_ program, as we now know after hearing from the DB guys on
>>several occasions.  So either he thought it was an idiot.  Or a chess savant.
>>Or both.  However, after game 1, I didn't see Kasparov do any real anti-computer
>>things that worked.  In fact, in game 1 it didn't work either...
>>
>>His comments were more on the order of excuse-making rather than informative.
>>
>>As far as "what changed the ...".  Perhaps his concept of "naive" is "I can beat
>>it" and his concept of "something new and never seen before" is "something I
>>can't beat"???
>>
>
>Next time I talk to him, I'll suggest that he will contact you for chess
>lessons.
>
>Amir


Or at least suggest that he contact me for some training in manners and public
relations.  :)

He needs _more_ help there...




>
>
>>After all, it _was_ the same program in both games, no changes of any kind
>>between rounds 1 and 2.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.