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Subject: Re: But Not Yet As Good As Deep Blue '97

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 12:09:48 07/19/00

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On July 19, 2000 at 13:47:49, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 19, 2000 at 08:25:32, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On July 18, 2000 at 22:00:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 18, 2000 at 16:26:08, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 18, 2000 at 11:05:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>I wouldn't begin to claim that DB "outplayed" kasparov in 97.  I do claim that
>>>>>it "beat" him, of course.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>But in the above, the point is can you find any specific weakness in DB that
>>>>>would lead to GMs discovering that and beating it like a drum?  Can you find
>>>>>any weakness in Deep Junior that would lead to GMs discovering that and beating
>>>>>it like a drum?
>>>>>
>>>>>That is the main difference I see.  We _all_ saw the king safety/blocked
>>>>>position problem in Dortmund.  We didn't see any such problem in DB'97.  It
>>>>>must have weaknesses.  But obviously no glaring weaknesses.  DB'96 had them.
>>>>>Deep Junior (and every other program) of 2000 has them.  DB'97 was something
>>>>>'different' in that regard, even though many want to pound their chests and
>>>>>say "mine is clearly and obviously better" or "it was just a fast/dumb machine."
>>>>>Both are far from truth.
>>>>
>>>>I quote Garry Kasparov who told me that game 1 of the DB'97 match was "a typical
>>>>computer game". Deeper Blue showed gross misunderstanding of king safety and was
>>>>smashed.
>>>>
>>>>Amir
>>>
>>>
>>>Why don't you quote him after game 2?  The picture 'changed'.  Or after game
>>>three where he was suddenly sure it was getting outside help it was playing
>>>so 'un-computer-like'.
>>>
>>>???
>>
>>He said it in exactly this context. He didn't understand what changed the naive
>>computer that played against him in the first game into what he saw in the
>>second.
>>
>>Amir
>
>
>It was the _same_ program, as we now know after hearing from the DB guys on
>several occasions.  So either he thought it was an idiot.  Or a chess savant.
>Or both.  However, after game 1, I didn't see Kasparov do any real anti-computer
>things that worked.  In fact, in game 1 it didn't work either...
>
>His comments were more on the order of excuse-making rather than informative.
>
>As far as "what changed the ...".  Perhaps his concept of "naive" is "I can beat
>it" and his concept of "something new and never seen before" is "something I
>can't beat"???
>

Next time I talk to him, I'll suggest that he will contact you for chess
lessons.

Amir


>After all, it _was_ the same program in both games, no changes of any kind
>between rounds 1 and 2.



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