Author: Dave Gomboc
Date: 11:41:24 08/13/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 2000 at 00:06:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 11, 2000 at 23:50:19, Dave Gomboc wrote: > >>On August 11, 2000 at 13:30:24, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2000 at 11:40:26, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2000 at 08:59:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 02:31:00, Yar wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 01:57:40, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 00:38:18, Yar wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This game was played on ICC. Blueflame used crafty v17.9 with all 4-man TB's + >>>>>>>>KQPKQ + KRPKR according to his fingernotes PII 400Mhz, spacechess Chess Tiger >>>>>>>>v12.0en PII-350Mhz time control 15-5. Have a look at the blunder made by >>>>>>>>blueflame in the endgame >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[Event "ICC u 15 5 2000.08.23"] >>>>>>>>[Site "Internet Chess Club"] >>>>>>>>[Date "2000.08.23"] >>>>>>>>[Round "-"] >>>>>>>>[White "BlueFlame"] >>>>>>>>[Black "SpaceChess"] >>>>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2542"] >>>>>>>>[BlackElo "2579"] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 >>>>>>>>6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Be7 8. Qf3 Qc7 9. O-O-O Nbd7 10. g4 b5 >>>>>>>>11. Bxf6 Nxf6 12. g5 Nd7 13. a3 Rb8 14. Bh3 Nc5 15. Rhg1 b4 >>>>>>>>16. axb4 Rxb4 17. f5 Qb7 18. f6 gxf6 19. gxf6 Bf8 20. b3 a5 >>>>>>>>21. Qe3 h5 22. Kb1 Bd7 23. e5 a4 24. Na2 Rb6 25. b4 Qe4 >>>>>>>>26. Rge1 Qxe3 27. Rxe3 Bh6 28. Re2 d5 29. Kb2 Bf8 30. c3 Bh6 >>>>>>>>31. Ka3 Nb3 32. Nxb3 axb3 33. Kxb3 Bb5 34. Rg2 Bf4 35. Re1 Kd7 >>>>>>>>36. Kc2 Rc6 37. Rg7 Rf8 38. Rh7 d4 39. Bf1 Bxf1 40. Rxf1 Bxe5 >>>>>>>>41. Rxh5 Ra8 42. Rxe5 Rxa2+ 43. Kb3 Rxh2 44. cxd4 Rd2 45. Rf4 Rd1 >>>>>>>>46. Rc5 Rb6 47. Kc2 Ra1 48. d5 exd5 49. Rxd5+ Ke6 50. Rc5 Kd6 >>>>>>>>51. Rcc4 Rba6 52. Kd3 Rd1+ 53. Ke2 Raa1 54. Rce4 Rab1 55. Kf3 Rh1 >>>>>>>>56. Re7 Kd5 57. Re2 Rbf1+ 58. Rf2 Ke5 59. Rc4 Rh3+ 60. Kg2 Rxf2+ >>>>>>>>61. Kxf2 Kxf6 62. b5 Rb3 63. Rc6+ Ke5 64. b6 f5 65. Ke2 Kd5 >>>>>>>>66. Rh6 Kc5 67. Rf6 Rxb6 68. Rxf5+ Kd4 69. Rf8 Rb3 70. Rh8 Re3+ >>>>>>>>71. Kf2 Ra3 72. Rg8 Rb3 73. Rh8 Ke4 74. Rg8 Rf3+ 75. Kg2 Rf7 >>>>>>>>76. Rh8 Rf4 77. Rg8 Ke3 78. Rh8 Rg4+ 79. Kh3 Rg1 80. Rf8 Kd4 >>>>>>>>81. Rd8+ Ke4 82. Re8+ Kf4 83. Rf8+ Ke3 84. Re8+ Kd3 85. Rd8+ Kc4 >>>>>>>>86. Rc8+ Kd5 87. Rd8+ Ke6 88. Re8+ Kd7 89. Rf8 Kd6 90. Rd8+ Kc7 >>>>>>>>91. Rf8 Rg6 92. Rh8 Kd6 93. Rf8 Kd5 94. Rh8 Kd4 95. Rf8 Ra6 >>>>>>>>96. Rh8 Ra1 97. Rg8 Ke4 98. Re8+ Kf4 99. Rf8+ Ke5 100. Re8+ Kd4 >>>>>>>>101. Rd8+ Ke3 102. Re8+ Kf3 103. Rf8+ Ke2 104. Re8+ Kd3 105. Rd8+ Kc4 >>>>>>>>106. Rc8+ Kd5 107. Rd8+ Ke6 108. Re8+ Kd7 109. Rg8 Kd6 110. Rd8+ Ke7 >>>>>>>>111. Rg8 Kf7 112. Rd8 Rg1 113. Rd7+ Ke6 114. Rd8 Ke5 115. Re8+ Kf4 >>>>>>>>116. Rf8+ Ke4 117. Re8+ Kf3 118. Rh8 Rh1# 0-1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>without looking on the game but only looking on the moves I see a draw by the 50 >>>>>>>move rule. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>White can ask for a draw and stop the clock when it plays 118.Rh8 and claim a >>>>>>>draw by the 50 move rule. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I guess that Blueflame did not know to ask for a draw by the 50 move rule and >>>>>>>that this is the reason that it lost. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>blueflame had 9+ minutes on his clock >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>This is just a timing hole in dealing with the chess server. Crafty does this: >>>>> >>>>>plays the move that hits the 50-move rule (both sides have now played 50 moves >>>>>without a pawn push or capture). It then sends the draw claim. But lag >>>>>prevents the draw claim from arriving at the chess server before the opponent >>>>>makes a move. >>>>> >>>>>In a 50 move rule game, _any_ move is good enough to get the draw, including >>>>>a move that hangs a rook or leaves you open to a mate in 1. Unfortunately, on >>>>>a chess server, playing such a move leaves you exposed to the tiny timing hole >>>>>mentioned above... >>>>> >>>>>You have to be sure your move _and_ draw claim arrive before the opponent can >>>>>play a move that beats you. Since the move and draw claim are sent separately, >>>>>there is no way to guarantee this. >>>> >>>>The rules say that your claim must come first. I do not know how the ICS handle >>>>this but FIDE's laws are quite sure on this point. >>>> >>>>Ref. from Fide: http://handbook.fide.com/ >>>> >>>>E.I. Laws of Chess >>>> >>>>9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, if >>>> >>>>a) he writes on his scoresheet, and declares to the arbiter his intention to >>>>make a move which shall result in the last 50 moves having been made by each >>>>player without the movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece, or >>>>b) the last 50 consecutive moves have been made by each player without the >>>>movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece. >>>> >>>> >>>>Odd Gunnar Malin >>> >>> >>>Chess servers don't work like that. By making a move, you automatically >>>"press your clock." It the perfect API might be to have a <press> command >> >>Right, so the "draw" should be sent before the "[move]" -- if the chess server >>is programmed properly to accept it, anyway. >> >>Dave > > >That won't work. If it isn't a forced draw, then "draw" simply offers the >opponent a draw, which he can decline. You _must_ make the move to satisfy >the 50 move rule first, otherwise it will not work properly. > >Just a glitch in the API design. And now since everybody is trying to fix it, >but in different ways, it is still going to be unusable for programs that play >on various servers. Eventually we need a patch for xboard to tell us which >server we are on so we know how to properly claim such draws. Which is really >an ugly solution when you think about how it _ought_ to be solved... on the >server end, uniformly. The FIDE 50-move rule is clearly satisfied after 99 plys without a capture have occured. The implementations just don't conform. Wouldn't it be best if the interface encapsulated the variation in server rules? I mean, the engine shouldn't have to worry about it (but then again, neither should the interface. 8^) Dave
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