Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Faster, deeper and more of such...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:16:16 09/15/00

Go up one level in this thread


On September 15, 2000 at 03:35:01, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 15, 2000 at 01:23:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 14, 2000 at 23:39:29, walter irvin wrote:
>>
>>>On September 14, 2000 at 18:40:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 14:42:28, Dan Ellwein wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 14:39:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 14:36:41, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 14:33:49, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 14:30:07, Dan Ellwein wrote:
>>>>>>>>[SNIP]
>>>>>>>>>I guess it would be impractical to run this test with opening book disabled...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(startin' with the very first move have the computer think on its own)...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>but i wonder what the data would look like if you did...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>it may be that there would not be a cut-off at iteration 19...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My guess is that in the first ten moves no program on earth can get to ply 19
>>>>>>>>unless it does a ludicrous amount of speculative pruning.  Even 16 plies would
>>>>>>>>be formidable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We are close.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Christophe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DB was "there" in 1997.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:)
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>What would it take to get Deep Blue up and running and give us some data
>>>>>comparable to what Ed has done here...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Several million dollars, an act of congress, and divine intervention, I am
>>>>afraid.  The several million dollars part is the _easiest_ of the required
>>>>events.  :)
>>>>
>>>>We do have some data for 6 games vs Kasparov.  Someone could hand-compute the
>>>>above for DB using that data, and get a rough approximation of what kind of
>>>>'change expectancy' it had for each additional ply.
>>>
>>>i figure your as good as the deep blue teem , what sort of hardware would you
>>>require to compete with deep blue and what program would you use???
>>
>>I think your figuring is probably inaccurate.  The DB guys were _very_
>>bright.  And there were several of them.  I can guarantee you I would
>>rather work in a setting with 4 bright chess people at my elbows, as
>>opposed to a setting with zero.
>>
>>I could "compete" with any hardware.  But if you mean "play equally or better
>>than" when you say compete, then there is no hardware available today that I
>>would want to carry into such a match.
>
>Other people including programmers have different opinion and the fact is that
>IBM does not want a match.
>
>Deep blue is the only program that cannot compete in the meaning of playing
>because IBM does not want it to compete.
>
>  I can probably hit 1/10th of their
>>search speed, maybe even 1/5th with some _real_ sophisticated hardware.  But
>>I couldn't do what they did in their evaluation without dragging performance
>>back down by at least a factor of 10x...  so that in reality, I might hit
>>1/100th to 1/50th of their effective speed.  If I got lucky with hardware.
>
>I think that it is better not to discuss about Deep blue because we cannot get
>into an agreement.
>
>Uri


I made my best guess based on dealing with them for about 10 years in computer
chess events.  I know how I was able to compete with them when they were active
in computer chess events.  I know how my program of today compares to the
program I ran during those events.  And I am certain that I can't find any
hardware today that I would use to play them that I would be willing to bet
_any_ money on at all in a match vs them.

Which was the original question.  No, we don't know just how good DB really
was/is.  We definitely know how bad it wasn't...  because it never got weaker
as they modified it.  And it wasn't weak in its original form in 1987.  I wish
there was hardware that could approach their speed, given my (or any other
program).  But nothing comes even close today.  In 10 years, yes...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.