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Subject: Re: the problems are the anons or the unknown people - are they paid ??

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:02:18 11/02/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 02, 2000 at 06:26:47, Derek Bingley wrote:

>On November 01, 2000 at 13:51:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 01, 2000 at 12:32:49, Derek Bingley wrote:
>>
>>>On October 31, 2000 at 15:07:29, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 30, 2000 at 19:00:36, leonid wrote:
>>>>>I don't know who is making that much money here but the place is more that
>>>>>useful. I received few times responses from the author of Rebel. I tried to find
>>>>>those responses for a while. In other occasions it was Bob Hyatt that helped me,
>>>>>and so like. Nobody did any money on me, I assure you. I gained a
>>>>>lot, this I know as fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>
>>>>i have nothing against people like ed, bob, bruce, amir, and and and
>>>>posts here. we know who they are. we know ed is pro rebel, amir pro
>>>>junior, bruce pro ferret and bob pro crafty.
>>>>
>>>>we can also find typical patterns for others. i do especially like programs
>>>>who play creative chess. therefore i am pro mchess, pro cstal, pro this and pro
>>>>that. i am using my own name here. so anybody knows: oh - thats typical for
>>>>thorsten, he is against fritz and pro gambit-tiger, cause he especially
>>>>likes the attacking style and of gambit-tiger, or the positional style
>>>>of shredder, or the  way ferret did it against fritz in paderborn, or the way
>>>>gandalf did it against tiger in paderborn, or or or or.
>>>>
>>>>we can all find patterns to evaluate things.
>>>>
>>>>but the problem is when somebody is only "Josef" and nobody here
>>>>knows : is he real ?!
>>>>and later josef says many things, can we be sure he is really josef ?!
>>>>
>>>>i could e.g. do the following: i take an account with the name Mark smith.
>>>>then i do post a lot negative stuff about chess base.
>>>>to damage chessbases name here.
>>>>nobody knows if mark smith exists. and he damages chessbase.
>>>>if i would work for millennium-company, i could make an account as
>>>>uri avneri and post lots of negative stuff against chessbase, against rebel
>>>>and against cstal.
>>>>if i would be working for chessbase, i could daily log in into ccc and call my
>>>>anon e.g. Gerhard Sonntag and post a lot of negative stuff about shredder,
>>>>rebel, gambit-tiger, cstal...
>>>>
>>>>i could very easy manipulate the tenor of this forum PRO or AGAINST
>>>>a product.
>>>>
>>>>nobody could find out , or ?
>>>
>>>I am replying to your post since it makes important points which are in danger
>>>of being overlooked.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>if i have a bigger company, i could pay 1 or 2 guys to make PRO
>>>>posts for MY products and NEGATIVE posts against opponents products and
>>>>also negative posts against the supporters of opponent products.
>>>
>>>I've lurked here for a time, and I see many posts with an obvious agenda as
>>>above.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Even Mr. Steven Schwartz could pay some people, and let them post here
>>>>under wrong name and make positive posts about products , he has to sell
>>>>because he has too much in stocks.
>>>
>>>Do we know that this action does not happen?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>i mean: the manipulation possibilities are not limited.
>>>>and all because people post under wrong name.
>>>
>>>I concur. Manipulation possibilities are unlimited here. There is money to be
>>>made and thus motivation for manipulation. There is status to be won or lost and
>>>thus motivation for manipulation.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>IMO it should not be allowed to post under wrong name.
>>>>or strange names (KarinsDad) because nobody knows about these people.
>>>
>>>My lurking told me that only Mr Schwartz was aware of the identity of this
>>>person. That's all right, then? But why should Mr Schwartz be above any
>>>suspicion of manipulation. He has as much incentive as any other commercial
>>>person. Not that I suggest he does it, of course.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>in a group in reality, you normally ask somebody after a while, if he
>>>>is not introduced to you, hello: and who are you ? and maybe he tells you.
>>>>if not, you normally ask somebody else: who is this guy over there ?
>>>>but in internet ?
>>>>
>>>>i don't like the possibilities to manipulate opinions.
>>>>IMO many threads here look as if some names are not real and could be
>>>>payed people to attack people.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Or just somehow interested in manipulations for any reason.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>i would like to talk freely with anybody, if he is in charge for what
>>>>he is doing. this makes it important to KNOW who he is.
>>>
>>>I concur. I wonder why nobody felt it necessary to respond to Mr Czub's post.
>>>
>>>Derek Bingley (2100 Rating)
>>
>>
>>Perhaps because many of us know Steve well enough to realize that such
>>suggestions are nonsense?
>
>The above is the argument of snake oil salesmen or the purveyors of dodgy
>investments to old ladies.
>
>The remedy being checks and balances. Doesn't the presidemt of the united states
>even have watchdogs over him and a constitution to abide to? Total power has a
>tendency to corrupt. Not, of course, that I suggest Steve to be corrupt. Simply
>that placing him into a position where he is able to freely manipulate can't be
>good for him.
>
>>
>>As far as manipulations go, this seems to be about the 10th incarnation you
>>have used here.  Do _you_ have an agenda?  Is it _constructive_??
>
>Yes. My agenda is to restore freedom of expression. imo you are an enemy of
>freedom of expression. imo you are concerned too much with your own ego and
>status and are prepared to go to any length to protect these. This behaviour of
>yours is not conducive to free dialog and additionally holds back development in
>computer chess by chasing off alternative viewpoints.
>
>
> If it is,
>>then why the need for an anonymous id?
>
>You may take it anyway you wish. Either it isn't or because you personally use
>your censorship powers to delete all effective criticism. Either the critics
>will go away or they will continue to fight you. Some do one, some the other.
>
>

Chris... I do not delete criticizm.  I have deleted one thread since I have
been moderator.  My name was _not_ mentioned in that thread one time.  Your
accusations are just as they always have been, namely incorrect and self-
serving.  Such a claim is known as a strawman argument.  I leave it to you
to produce _any_ evidence that I have deleted _any_ post that mentioned my
name, my program, or anything remotely related to me.

Ball is in your court.  Back up your claim or go back to your own forum.



>>
>>I personally dislike the concept of using anonymous postings to avoid any
>>sort of repercussion.
>
>I personally dislike the concept of using censorship to maintain a fake status
>and ego.


I personally dislike you.  But that hasn't caused me to ask for your ouster.
So again, show _one_ example where I have used the power of moderator deletion
to maintain a fake status and/or ego.

Time to put up or shut up...  if you know what I mean.




>
>> I say what I mean, most of the time.
>
>Like Humpty-Dumpty, your words mean just whatever you want them to mean. No more
>and no less.
>
>I suspect this is the point at which you will need to use one of the other
>moderators to delete this account.


No.  Your account likely will be deleted.  Because your original account
was deleted when you posted your password here in public.  And CCC has a
(now) distinct policy that forbids anonymous/fake handles.

You are only here to disrupt.  You tried your own forum.  If failed.  Yet
you are still convinced that _your_ approach to things is the right approach.
I wonder who _really_ has the big ego problem???




>
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Derek Bingley
>
>
>
>
>  And anybody
>>can verify that I am who I say I am.  Whether that makes what I say any
>>more valuable or not is another issue.  But it does lend _credibility_ to
>>it.
>>
>>In another 5 years this anonymous nonsense will be history.
>>
>>thank goodness.



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