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Subject: Re: LeTiger and Crafty on ICC for Mr. Hyatt and Andreas

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:39:10 11/06/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 06, 2000 at 14:48:23, David Beauregard wrote:

>On November 05, 2000 at 09:51:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 05, 2000 at 00:52:34, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On November 03, 2000 at 10:39:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 03, 2000 at 00:18:40, David Beauregard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 22:28:50, pavel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 15:07:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 05:07:36, Jerry wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Why waste your time with crafty or scrappy???
>>>>>>>>Singacrafty is the same program and will play ALL other programs...
>>>>>>>>You can see craftys true rating there, not the over rated rank achieved by
>>>>>>>>noplaying those with better programs...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Good Luck on ICC...LeTiger is a tough opponent
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You say I noplay those with better programs.  I challenge you to prove
>>>>>>>that statement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     attakinski  cmslim        criollo   dini    egghead  FireViper
>>>>>>>     GODMODE     gzk           inmortal  Kurios  Mr-Matt  Pietari
>>>>>>>     BarkingCow  comp          CUP98     EA6PZ   eivissa  Gatling
>>>>>>>     Good-Boy    HangerOn      Jack-Daniels      Masterchess  muhaha
>>>>>>>     twixer      brut          ComputerMan       Dementia  Eatman  ET2000
>>>>>>>     Ghostn      Gregorio      HUGES     jason-1 MasterMarc   Mungo
>>>>>>>     Wild5Crafy  CARobot       CraftyCrafty      DesX      Ebbi    Eza
>>>>>>>     GmSuperSoffer  grouchy   ibrax     JJcool        MateGoD      MysticWarrior
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is the _total_ noplay list for crafty at the present moment.  You can
>>>>>>>verify this with an ICC admin if you want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now exactly which "top programs" have I noplayed?  Most of those are computer
>>>>>>>cheaters and crafty users.  Only a very few are there for violating my finger
>>>>>>>notes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>your turn.  Maybe to offer facts rather than incorrect speculation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>where is 'letiger' in your list?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Pavel
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob, how about the following list of top programs you have no played including
>>>>>LeTiger who is still censored and noplayed.  The following are top programs you
>>>>>have no played for what reason I do not know but here they are Mr. Hyatt.
>>>>>
>>>>>LeTiger, Good-Boy, CARobot, Gregorio, EA6PZ, Egghead, mystic warrior.  These
>>>>>programs are top programs and can win and would win their fair share against
>>>>>Crafty if you would not hide behind your noplay and censor rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>LeTiger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>OK...  feel free to do what you want.  That attitude does not earn my
>>>>admiration.  I don't "hide behind" anything.  I simply choose to noplay
>>>>folks that think they don't have to follow my rules.
>>>>
>>>>If you don't like my policies, all I can say is "tough".  If you want to
>>>>say I hide behind my policies, fine.  But don't come up with this nonsense
>>>>of hiding behind my noplay and censor list.  I now remember why I censored
>>>>you in the first place.  Hint:  it has to do with "attitude".  I don't feel
>>>>obligated to put up with nonsense.
>>>>
>>>>You have been un-noplayed for days.  However, I don't care whether we play
>>>>again or not.  There are _plenty_ of tiger operators on ICC that are a bit
>>>>less arrogant, and a lot more polite.  I'll stick with them.
>>>
>>>What did he do?
>>>
>>>I know that I have had some trouble with operators and put them on my noplay
>>>list, but I can't remember why, in most cases.  In a few cases I actually took
>>>notes, but now I can't find the notes.
>>>
>>>I've been running on Otter recently and I don't think that has much of a noplay
>>>list at all, so it has been playing some of the guys who are on your noplay
>>>list.
>>>
>>>So far, no problems.
>>>
>>>I don't know why you need to worry about these guys.  If you want to get the
>>>games, but don't want the attitude, you can add something to your interface that
>>>deletes tells from them, as well as draw requests, requests for aborts,
>>>adjournments, kibitzes, and takebacks.  That lets you censor them while still
>>>allowing them to play.  At that point they become perfect opponents.
>>
>>The problem is that I don't want a huge number of games vs one single
>>program, which is where the 4 game limit came from.  Prior to automatic
>>interfaces for commercial programs, it was rare to play 4 games in a row,
>>but once automatic interfaces were developed, it became common.  He was
>>noplayed by my interface for playing well over 4 games in a row.  Usually
>>when this happens, the operator will say "sorry, I missed your notes, it
>>won't happen again" and I remove them.  In this case, I simply received more
>>abuse about "hiding" which hardly encourages me to remove anything at all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>You have a whole bunch of people who want to fight with you simultaneously.  I
>>>would find it hard to manage this many fights, personally.  At some point it has
>>>to become impossible to manage.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>
>>There is little to manage.  Other than the occasional complaint here.
>
>Bob, I thought we had buried this issue.  The problem came in that I did not
>play you four games in a row but that bounty hunter and other tigers, which I
>did not finger on, had already played the four games.  I was the fifth game.
>Since going thru everybodies finger notes is a little tedious to see if they are
>playing tigers and now a lot of operators are playing multiple engines.
>I hope this puts to rest once and for all this issue and that LeTiger and Crafty
>can play once in a while.  Thanks.   David Beauregard


Note that not all of this is addressed to you.  This has come up before.
And as Bruce mentioned, it will come up again.

Just think about this:

Crafty/ICC is my _only_ methodology for testing program changes.  I don't run
multiple machines in my office, autoplaying other programs 24 hours a day.  I
depend on that testing methodology completely.  And for that reason, I want a
variety of opponents, including (mainly) human IM/GM players.

I don't try to tell Ed or Christophe or Frans or any other program developer
who he has to test against.  I assume they are old enough and wise enough to
know who they are most interested in testing against.  That is all I ask for
on ICC...  the ability to play who/what/when I want to maximize my testing
results.

That is why I get particularly aggravated when someone starts in with the
"you are just hiding your high rating behind your noplay list."  If the
people that said that would simply do a bit of research on ICC, using the
history and search commands, they would find that this is actually the
opposite of what I do.  I don't hide from strong programs.  I don't think
I have anything to fear from _any_ program in fact.  But I do want to prevent
my testing from becoming biased when I only play (and tune for) one specific
program.  That is unhealthy in the max...

You have to be _very_ careful when you read messages on a general message board
like this.  It is all too easy to conclude that all the remarks are addressed to
you..  when in reality, they are frequently addressed to a group of people,
since a 'group' is reading these posts...




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