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Subject: Re: Crafty 17.13 - using game archives by engines?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:36:35 11/09/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 09, 2000 at 15:40:28, Wieland Belka wrote:

>On November 08, 2000 at 22:09:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 08, 2000 at 16:25:43, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>
>>>On November 07, 2000 at 17:36:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 07, 2000 at 17:01:16, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 07, 2000 at 10:30:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 07, 2000 at 06:56:01, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 05, 2000 at 09:42:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 05, 2000 at 06:09:28, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On November 04, 2000 at 23:58:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On November 04, 2000 at 12:59:23, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Posted by Robert Hyatt on November 03, 2000 at 20:53:12:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In Reply to: Re: Crafty 17.13 - using game archives by engines? posted by
>>>>>>>>>>>Wieland Belka on November 03, 2000 at 18:19:53:
>>>>>>>>>>>On November 03, 2000 at 18:19:53, Wieland Belka wrote: >On November 02, 2000 at
>>>>>>>>>>>14:25:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 13:22:08, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hello Crafty friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>using opening books it's a great part of Crafty's strong playing, well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. How could I complete Crafty's book with specific opening stuff?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. Can Crafty profit from any game archives? If yes, on which way?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can anybody help?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Wieland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This is not hard to do...  you can use _any_ collection of PGN games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you want, in order to build an opening book that covers the specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>openings you want to play against.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We already have 2M game collections available.  My ftp machine is full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of pgn files...  The problem is "quality".  not "quantity".  The pgn has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>typos, games by patzers, horrible blunders, openings that have been busted,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and so forth.  Learning will help, but it definitely takes time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob, thanks for reply!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You are right, of course, because of the quality of collections of PGN games.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>But I meant: If I had a little, but good collection to a specific rare opening,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>on which way could I *complete* Crafty's original book?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The way to do this is to take the original PGN, and then _add_ to it with the stuff you want to >use.  In fact, the books.bin file is made to add to in this fashion, leaving book.bin to be a >large "backup" for when books.bin is
>>>>>>>>>>>>no longer useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>What do you mean with _add_? A command? Unknown by your command list v. 17.XX!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>There is no "add command".  You have to have the original PGN file used to
>>>>>>>>>>create the book, then to this file you "add" the new pgn you want included.
>>>>>>>>>>You do this with any editor of your choice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>And my second ask: Is it the right way to produce own openings books with *your*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>collections of PGN games on your ftp server? The way for that is clear, but is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>it well? Or is your Crafty opening book already the best solution?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>regards Wieland
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>What I do now is _not_ optimal.  It needs a lot more work, which will happen
>>>>>>>>>>>>over the next year or two.  I don't believe in hand-crafted books, as they
>>>>>>>>>>>>require too much human labor.  But they are difficult to beat, without a _lot_
>>>>>>>>>>>>of work...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bob, I'm a new fan of your Crafty! But the only thing I have is your command
>>>>>>>>>>>list v. 17.XX!!
>>>>>>>>>>>What are you telling me?! Is it possible to complete your opening book
>>>>>>>>>>>"book.bin" with own serious PGN game collections?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>regards Wieland
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>yes.  building the book simply sucks in a big pgn file.  You can put _anything_
>>>>>>>>>>into that file that you think is appropriate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob, please, sorry, but we are turning in a cycle again! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I only wanted to say: The way to create an own opening book is clear. But I
>>>>>>>>>asked after a solution (Crafty commands!) to *complete* Crafty's book! Your
>>>>>>>>>command list v. 17.XX is not telling about it!
>>>>>>>>>By the way: I do not know exactly meaning of "book.bin" here and "books.bin" on
>>>>>>>>>the other side.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There is no command to "complete" crafty's book.  You can only create a
>>>>>>>>book from raw PGN.  Not add to it.  Before you create the book, you can
>>>>>>>>put _anything_ in the pgn file.  Then after you create the book from this
>>>>>>>>pgn file, you will have a book with the moves you want included.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Okay, now I understood. I can not complete your existing Crafty's opening books
>>>>>>>directly.
>>>>>>>And the other way: Is it possible to create a PGN file from your "book.bin" to
>>>>>>>complete with my stuff and create a new Crafty book.bin?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No.  the hashing is non-reversible.  But the original PGN file is already
>>>>>>available on my ftp machine (enormous.pgn is the file you want, it is broken
>>>>>>into pieces to make it easier to download).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks, Bob! Now I'm knowing really more than before! The last ones:
>>>>>1. What parameter do you recommend creating a really good new book.bin for
>>>>>Crafty?
>>>>>   And books.bin??
>>>>
>>>>I don't believe that (at present) it is possible to create a "really good book"
>>>>from pgn game collections.  There are too many mistakes, blunders, refuted
>>>>moves, and so forth.
>>>>
>>>>This is a tough problem to do automatically.
>>>>
>>>
>>>But you have done so, too?!
>>>
>>>>>2. Is your "enormous.pgn" better than Dann Corbit's PGN opening folders under
>>>>>    ftp://cap.connx.com/pub/a-openings/ and following?
>>>
>>>>No idea.  Dan knows what I have.  I believe what I have came from what he
>>>>has, which means if you combine all his stuff you get the file I use.
>>>
>>>
>>>And you do not know that?? Who did deliver "enormous.pgn"? I only ask to know
>>>which chances I have to create own opening books ...
>>
>>
>>I believe Dann put all of that together...
>
>
>Bob, English is not my native language. If you answering too short, I can not
>understand sure.
>What did you mean with that? I only want to see if your "enormous.pgn" was
>produced
>from Dann Corbit's game (opening) collection!


Yes.  Although Dann can provide more details.  IE he may now have even more
PGN data that is _not_ part of enormous.pgn.



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