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Subject: Re: Just another one of RebelTiger on ICC

Author: Alvaro Rodriguez

Date: 12:36:30 11/14/00

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On November 14, 2000 at 15:05:06, Mogens Larsen wrote:

>On November 14, 2000 at 14:14:22, Alvaro Rodriguez wrote:
>
>>Yes, if I had my own program to operate, I would not distinguish between humans
>>and computers when analyzing the games, but I guess there is a difference. Bob
>>for example, would care as he prefers to play against the GM´s on ICC and
>>analyzes those games with more interest then against computers. It depends on
>>who is operating, but I guess most of the operators cares wheather it´s a human
>>or a computer.
>
>I think that is true if it's the programmer who operates the program or owns the
>account, because it could diminish the value of the data significantly. Frankly,
>I couldn't care less about the ordinary consumer. The main objective must be to
>have fun with a program you've bought. That should be independent of whether
>you're playing a human or a disguised computer.

Yup, the main objective is to have fun. If the owner of the account who "gets
cheated" is the programmer, then I think it matters if the opponent is a human
or not. Because the programmer might be looking at some specific problems or
bugs in the program, let say, when playing against humans.
>
>>Advanced chess is interesting for sure, but I think you should tell your
>>opponent before the game if you are about to use a program as a "coach".
>
>That can be quite difficult if the programmer or operator isn't there, but
>you're right in principle. But if you're not interested in a permanent computer
>account then I don't see any problems in testing a new (or old) computer program
>against a computer account for fun, doing as little harm as possible.

Yes, you are right, I´ve done this several times in chess.net. I´ve asked some
(C) accounts to play me, and that I would use a program to help me. Many of them
accepted and in fact thanked me for asking !
>
>>Otherwise, your opponent thinks he´s playing against a human and that is wrong
>>IMO. Mogens, what do you mean when you say you are against computer program
>>"rights" in general ?
>
>Basically I don't find that "cheating" against computer programs is in the same
>league as cheating against a human being at all. Unless we're talking about
>special circumstances, ie. programmers needing information from games against a
>human player or something similar.

I agree.
>
>Playing advanced chess against a computer account is just as valid as buying the
>latest software and hardware for the sole purpose of being the best account at
>ICC. The latter option won't make you a better chess player. Maybe ICC should
>contemplate making (AC) accounts as well, or remove the human accounts
>altogether. No more cheating :o).

I still don´t understand why people wants to cheat, ok, they gain little respect
maybe if they suceeds, but you don´t gain any money or improve your chess skills
much. But creating (AC) accounts could be a good idea. In chess.net, you can see
if your opponent is switching aplications, could be ICQ or a computer program.
Do they have that on ICC ?

Alvaro
>
>Mogens.



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