Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:04:04 11/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 15, 2000 at 00:55:51, Alvaro Rodriguez wrote: >On November 14, 2000 at 17:30:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 14, 2000 at 14:14:22, Alvaro Rodriguez wrote: >> >>>On November 14, 2000 at 13:09:55, Mogens Larsen wrote: >>> >>>>On November 14, 2000 at 13:00:53, Alvaro Rodriguez wrote: >>>> >>>>>It´s a big deal because the program expects to play a human opponent and when >>>>>the person who is running the (C)(in this case Rebel Tiger) analyzes the games >>>>>played against humans, he will analyze this game too and import it to a database >>>>>with all human opponents. So, he will get wrong results.. Allthough, it´s just >>>>>one game but if everybody cheats, then the results against humans will be >>>>>completly worthless. IMO >>>> >>>>A good point if it's important to distinguish between human and computer >>>>opponents when analysing your games. However, a lost game is a lost game and >>>>should analysed due to that fact alone independent of the opposition. >>>> >>>>I'm still of the opinion that it's rather harmless to play "advanced" chess >>>>against a computer opponent compared to cheating against a human player. But >>>>maybe I'm just against the idea of computer program "rights" in general :o). >>>> >>>>Mogens. >>> >>>Yes, if I had my own program to operate, I would not distinguish between humans >>>and computers when analyzing the games, but I guess there is a difference. Bob >>>for example, would care as he prefers to play against the GM´s on ICC and >>>analyzes those games with more interest then against computers. It depends on >>>who is operating, but I guess most of the operators cares wheather it´s a human >>>or a computer. >> >>In general, on ICC, (with respect to book learning) I don't care about >>silicon vs carbon. I pay attention the _rating_. And a cheater can sure >>wreck this... ie he is rated 2500 but chooses to not use the computer and >>plays like an 1800 as a result. Or he is 1800 but uses a computer and plays >>like a 2500. If I take the ICC rating and factor that into the learning >>formula, I get wrong answers. >> >>I also want to know I am playing a computer as I am more cautious about setting >>the contempt factor. Against humans, the contempt is a function of their rating >>and Crafty's current ICC rating. Against computers, contempt=0, period, as >>doing anything else lets the opponent influence the game by fiddling with the >>contempt. > >This is a reason why silicon vs carbon matters. If you set the contempt=0 >believing you´re going to play a computer, but instead, the operator plays >himself. Then, you get wrong results. If you play humans only on ICC, do your >rating get higher then if you play only computers ? Depends on what you mean by "you". If you mean me as a human, my rating would probably be higher if I only played computers. How much is a guess, of course. But I would _definitely_ play things I would not play against humans. If you mean "crafty" then its rating will be higher playing humans rather than computers, for lots of reasons. Tuning. Computer operators are flakey at times, running a weak program, then a strong one, or a slow machine followed by a fast one. Such computer opponents have a rating that is never matched to the machine/program that is actually playing at the moment. If you catch him on weak hardware with a high rating, you win points. If you catch him on fast hardware with a low rating, you lose points. Sort of a crap-shoot in many cases. I wish this didn't happen, and in the case of _my_ program, the hardware is a constant. As is the program (excepting when I make changes of course.) Others don't do the same, however. Which makes the rating pool fluctuate more than would normally be expected. > >Alvaro >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>Advanced chess is interesting for sure, but I think you should tell your >>>opponent before the game if you are about to use a program as a "coach". >>>Otherwise, your opponent thinks he´s playing against a human and that is wrong >>>IMO. Mogens, what do you mean when you say you are against computer program >>>"rights" in general ? >>> >>>Alvaro
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