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Subject: Re: Tony's positional test suite

Author: Pete Galati

Date: 13:27:26 01/17/01

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On January 17, 2001 at 15:54:35, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On January 17, 2001 at 15:41:53, Pete Galati wrote:
>>On January 17, 2001 at 13:22:02, Dann Corbit wrote:
>[snip]
>>>Better yet, analayze the entire trace of:
>>>1.  The games actually played
>>>2.  The suggested alternatives
>>>3.  The moves the engines suggest
>>
>>I don't completely understand. Are you talking about analyzing games as in
>>Crafty's "annotate" command?  If so, then what would you do with the
>>annotations?
>
>No.  Using OCD to translate the PGN into EPD.


What is OCD?  I know that SAN can spit out EPDs form a PGN file, but I don't
know what OCD is.

>Batch process the EPD at 12 minutes per record.

I think Crafty and Comet can both test positions with a bat file, but I don't
know who else can.  I didn't think the comercial programs could do that.
Actually, now that I think of it, I think there's actually a version of Nero
that's specifically made for that (not that I'm expecting you to use it)

>For the supposed traces from a given position, use Thomas Mooney III's
>EpdProcessor to generate EPD for the suggested PV.
>Batch process the EPD at 12 minutes per record.

That sounds like something I've seen on your ftp, but I know nothing about it.

>
>If suggested moves do NOT follow the suggested PV or the game, then generate EPD
>and analyse the suggested trace until termination at 12 minutes per position.
>
>>Also, if you have several different programs crunching numbers on the games and
>>positions, how do you decide which one is correct?
>
>Look at the final outcome and look at how things turned out during the search.
>For each suggestion by each program, follow the exact same steps as outlined
>above.  If it turns out that there are several winning trajectories beyond
>refutation, then all of them are equally good.
>
>>>It would take about a month of effort with several computers to complete.  But
>>>when finished, the results would be a worthy test suite.
>>
>>If possible, it would be great if somebody here at CCC knew a highly rated GM
>>that would be willing to sit down and provide opinions, partly because computer
>>Chess programs can't be incorporating as much human instinct for the game as
>>they'd like to.
>
>That would be ideal.  Then computers could double check for tactical traps that
>the GM's missed.

Even without a GM's input, it sounds like there's a lot of potential for putting
together a killer epd test suite.

Pete

>
>>Anyhow..., this below may or may not illustrate what Uri is trying to say.  From
>>that test suite, pos 8, Comet in Chessbase instead of the Dos version, agreed
>>with b4 for a while, and then said "screw that" and went and picked the lowest
>>score Qc1!  How could this be?
>
>Tactical snacking is what drives computers.  Positional moves are the hardest
>thing for computers.  Of course, it may also be the case that there is a hidden
>tactical flaw in the positional choice.  Or the positional choice may require a
>sacrifice at some point in the future that the computer really does not
>understand.  There are a thousand additional reasons the computer could be wrong
>and the same number that it might be right and the GM wrong.  Depth of analysis
>is not sufficient unless a checkmate is proven.



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