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Subject: Re: SSDF and the programmers............

Author: Scott Carmichael

Date: 02:17:55 03/18/98

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On March 18, 1998 at 04:38:38, Ed Schröder wrote:

>>Posted by Detlef Pordzik on March 17, 1998 at 19:50:04:
>
>>>So take my word for it that comp-comp learning is still in childhood
>>>stage. So much to improve. And comp-comp learning is simply a cheat
>>>as the goal is to get a higher elo on SSDF. It has nothing to do with
>>>the strength of the chess engine.
>
>>>Blame me for my part in it. With Rebel9 I joined the club. Now I
>>>step out. It was a mistake. I will not support this silly cooking
>>>race any longer. Back to the roots which is the chess engine.
>
>>What I would like to ask - as you, of course, should be highly
>>interested too,
>>to clear the situation :
>
>I fully agree with you. If things get honest again (engine versus
>engine)
>I will be happy to join the SSDF again. But let's face it, first we had
>to deal with book cooks, then the learners came and now we have to deal
>with an unknown autoplayer from a competitor?
>
>This for me is just the limit. Till now everybody has made his
>autoplayer public. Now we have a new fashion, a secret autoplayer.
>Who is next? Why should I join this new fashion?
>
>
>>do you see a chance, to get things back into balance, without SSDF
>>finally loosing it's face - and what would you personally suggest, how
>>this could work ?
>
>As I said before:
>
>- General accepted autoplayers also available for the public;
>- Equal hash table sizes;
>- Skip doubles;
>
>Remains the problem of book cooking as Thorsten correctly has pointed
>out. Well I can live with that.
>
>
>>Because the whole thing is just like after having thrown a rock into the
>>pool -
>>waves, waves + waves....but no solution in sight
>>- and personally I'd really like to see one -
>>and if it only were for the benefit of all...:-))
>
>You are so right.
>
>I do not share Ossie Weiner's opinions in the way he has expressed
>himself. I have no single evidence the chessbase autoplayer cheats.
>Neither do I expect that from a respected company. But I should have
>the chance to check that myself. It's called fair competition.
>
>Sofar I noticed:
>
>#1. The chessbase autoplayer doesn't save the opponents game. Maybe
>opponents in that stage update their learner? Logical place no? And
>now maybe this learner update is bypassed? For Rebel8/9 this could
>be so true. I can't check. How can I judge?
>
>#2. The chessbase autoplayer changes colors. white-black-white and
>so on. This is not COMMON auto232. Looking at my source code this
>doesn't seem to influence the learner of Rebel. But how can I know
>for sure? And what about other chess programs? Did the Swedish ask
>the programmers if this white-black-white behavior influence their
>learners? One thing for sure, they didn't ask me. And from a
>programmers view of point this white-black-white behavior can easily
>disturb their learner.
>
>Quite a mess...
>
>- Ed -
>
>
>>ELVIS
   Is it not common tournament practice to alternate colors during play?
Perhaps I am niave in this matter, but isn't the altenation of colors
fair? From what Chessbase and Nicbase stastic have shown, White does
have a better winning percentage.



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