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Subject: Re: SSDF and the programmers............

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:22:25 03/19/98

Go up one level in this thread


On March 19, 1998 at 15:51:28, Ed Schröder wrote:

>>Posted by Amir Ban on March 19, 1998 at 08:16:49:
>
>>>Adding the AUTO232 code is a one day job. You only have to sent the
>>>moves played by Ferret to the printer. The supplied NONAME driver
>>>does the rest.
>
>
>>Ed is talking about the DOS autoplayer. Won't work for you. For your
>>Win32 program, you need the Windows autoplayer. Ask Chrilly Donninger
>>for the code. Should be about a week's work of integrating and testing.
>>I've found one problem that I posted here recently. Otherwise it works
>>ok. You also need the special cable.
>
>>What Ed says is not true even for the DOS autoplayer. What's involved is
>>not only printing the moves (in some obscure format, including move
>>numbers and tabs that I never really managed to figure out). You also
>>need to have the ability for text mode, and then you have to support a
>>bunch of text-mode commands. All this is documented mostly in German.
>>Integrating the Windows autoplayer is easier because it just puts out
>>messages that you can service as you like. Besides it's source code and
>>part of your program, so you can modify it any way that suits you.
>
>>I think Ed doesn't know this because he never had to do this. The
>>"standard" DOS autoplayer is really a TSR that steals some interrupts,
>>and it knows about the common commercial programs (Rebel, Genius, Hiarcs
>>etc.) knows how their UI works, so it maniplates it programmatically.
>>For other programs there's the hook of the NONAME protocol, which each
>>must implement on its own. In fact every NONAME interface is a
>>proprietary non-standard autoplayer (not that there  is anything
>>standard about an autoplayer that knows exactly how the Rebel menus
>>work).
>
>You are right, I forgot about that. My job was easy, just sent the
>moves to the printer. The rest is done by the driver.
>
>
>>>From my perspective there is no such thing as a standard autoplayer.
>>There isn't one now, there can't possibly be one, and really there's no
>>need for one. Obviously Ossie Weiner doesn't really understand what he
>>is asking for in technical terms.
>
>>While there's no standard autoplayer, and this thing is a red herring,
>>there is a standard autoplayer PROTOCOL, which is something completely
>>different. Everyone can implement the protocol and then be able to play
>>with another one using the protocol. This protocol is not very well
>>documented, but that's a different issue. The implementation of the
>>protocol is always proprietary and specific to one program. This is
>>inevitable and not at all suspicious. The proof that someone
>>implementated the standard correctly is that the protocol works, and
>>that's all that matters.
>
>Where is the information about the protocol?
>How much (estimated) time to implement?
>
>
>>In regard to Fritz, I have no idea what their autoplayer does, but the
>>fact that it cooperates successfully with other autoplayers is proof
>>enough that it is standard AUTO232. If someone feels that things like
>>sticking to the same color, or saving games is a mandatory part of the
>>standard, they can easily enforce it on their side of the protocol.
>
>I disagree.
>
>It should be not allowed that the Fritz autoplayer can rule over
>other programs. There are at least 2 strong indicators that this
>happens.
>
>I can't accept that.
>
>- Ed -
>
>

this cuts two ways.  IE I have gotten some games played via the
autoplayer
with rebel vs crafty, with the rebel "anti-doubles" option enabled, and
Rebel is quite capable of aborting a game (somehow) without Crafty
having
any say-so in it at all.  So this has been there from day one I
suppose??



>>Standards usually evolve out of consensus or by committee, and are a
>>good thing since they enable independent parties to cooperate. I think
>>this is a good opportunity to define by committee what the AUTO232
>>protocol is, and then no one is obliged to support anything outside what
>>is defined, and everyone should implement what is defined, or else risk
>>not being supported. I propose that Chrilly Donninger, who wrote the DOS
>>autoplayer, will publish his proposal for the standard protocol,
>>including any extensions he feels are necessary now, and put it up for
>>debate here. I hope when doing that he will also be speaking for Ossie
>>Weiner, and that will solve that problem too.
>
>>Amir



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