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Subject: Re: SSDF and the programmers............

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 12:51:28 03/19/98

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>Posted by Amir Ban on March 19, 1998 at 08:16:49:

>>Adding the AUTO232 code is a one day job. You only have to sent the
>>moves played by Ferret to the printer. The supplied NONAME driver
>>does the rest.


>Ed is talking about the DOS autoplayer. Won't work for you. For your
>Win32 program, you need the Windows autoplayer. Ask Chrilly Donninger
>for the code. Should be about a week's work of integrating and testing.
>I've found one problem that I posted here recently. Otherwise it works
>ok. You also need the special cable.

>What Ed says is not true even for the DOS autoplayer. What's involved is
>not only printing the moves (in some obscure format, including move
>numbers and tabs that I never really managed to figure out). You also
>need to have the ability for text mode, and then you have to support a
>bunch of text-mode commands. All this is documented mostly in German.
>Integrating the Windows autoplayer is easier because it just puts out
>messages that you can service as you like. Besides it's source code and
>part of your program, so you can modify it any way that suits you.

>I think Ed doesn't know this because he never had to do this. The
>"standard" DOS autoplayer is really a TSR that steals some interrupts,
>and it knows about the common commercial programs (Rebel, Genius, Hiarcs
>etc.) knows how their UI works, so it maniplates it programmatically.
>For other programs there's the hook of the NONAME protocol, which each
>must implement on its own. In fact every NONAME interface is a
>proprietary non-standard autoplayer (not that there  is anything
>standard about an autoplayer that knows exactly how the Rebel menus
>work).

You are right, I forgot about that. My job was easy, just sent the
moves to the printer. The rest is done by the driver.


>>From my perspective there is no such thing as a standard autoplayer.
>There isn't one now, there can't possibly be one, and really there's no
>need for one. Obviously Ossie Weiner doesn't really understand what he
>is asking for in technical terms.

>While there's no standard autoplayer, and this thing is a red herring,
>there is a standard autoplayer PROTOCOL, which is something completely
>different. Everyone can implement the protocol and then be able to play
>with another one using the protocol. This protocol is not very well
>documented, but that's a different issue. The implementation of the
>protocol is always proprietary and specific to one program. This is
>inevitable and not at all suspicious. The proof that someone
>implementated the standard correctly is that the protocol works, and
>that's all that matters.

Where is the information about the protocol?
How much (estimated) time to implement?


>In regard to Fritz, I have no idea what their autoplayer does, but the
>fact that it cooperates successfully with other autoplayers is proof
>enough that it is standard AUTO232. If someone feels that things like
>sticking to the same color, or saving games is a mandatory part of the
>standard, they can easily enforce it on their side of the protocol.

I disagree.

It should be not allowed that the Fritz autoplayer can rule over
other programs. There are at least 2 strong indicators that this
happens.

I can't accept that.

- Ed -


>Standards usually evolve out of consensus or by committee, and are a
>good thing since they enable independent parties to cooperate. I think
>this is a good opportunity to define by committee what the AUTO232
>protocol is, and then no one is obliged to support anything outside what
>is defined, and everyone should implement what is defined, or else risk
>not being supported. I propose that Chrilly Donninger, who wrote the DOS
>autoplayer, will publish his proposal for the standard protocol,
>including any extensions he feels are necessary now, and put it up for
>debate here. I hope when doing that he will also be speaking for Ossie
>Weiner, and that will solve that problem too.

>Amir



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