Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 16:38:31 03/30/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 30, 2001 at 18:23:54, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >On March 30, 2001 at 17:35:06, Dann Corbit wrote: >>On March 30, 2001 at 16:55:02, Brian Kostick wrote: >>>On March 30, 2001 at 16:07:31, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>On March 30, 2001 at 15:20:05, James Robertson wrote: >>>>>I've noticed that a lot of programs are now battling the web. Does anybody know >>>>>how many people are actually voting though? Gambit Tiger, for instance, only has >>>>>the percentages, and not the actual numbers of voters. >>>>> >>>>>Out of curiosity, are these programs actually playing the "Web" or are they in >>>>>reality just playing a few dozen chess freaks from this site? Does anybody know >>>>>how many voters (even a very rough average will be interesting) there are for >>>>>the games Deep Fritz, Deep Shredder, and Gambit Tiger vs. the web? >>>>> >>>>>I'm hoping the numbers are not too low. The fact that Deep Shredder's game was >>>>>advertized on kasparovchess.com and TWIC is really good. Maybe this will attract >>>>>substantially more people. >>>> >>>>"X verses the Web" is an old gimmick. Actually, most of the time, "the web" >>>>plays much more poorly than a single good opponent. Imagine, a big committee >>>>voting on which move to make. Are most of them spending 24 hours of computer >>>>time analyzing a move or GM's themselves? Surely not. In general, it is a >>>>farce (to my way of thinking) but a nice way to gather publicity. I think the >>>>Kasparov match was different, however. For some reason, a very large group >>>>galvanized resources very well, and organized fairly efficiently. The >>>>commentary by the experts was quite good (and gave me new respect for I. Kush). >>>>At any rate, that sort of high quality match [despite the attempted sabotage] is >>>>_by far_ the exception rather than the rule. >>>> >>>>If you want to see very high quality chess, you will get far, far better by a >>>>match between two highly rated opponents than one high quality opponent verses >>>>the web. I think I could probably beat most people on the internet (which isn't >>>>saying much) but I am absolutely sure that a really good player like Vincent, >>>>Djordie, or Come would slaughter me repeatedly. So you get ten thousand morons >>>>to collectively make their choice -- how good is that choice going to be? Even >>>>if experts give excellent analysis -- will they even understand it? >>>> >>>>I suspect [snicker] that the higher the number of votes received, the LOWER the >>>>quality of the move generated. If a move got a million votes, it is almost SURE >>>>to be a real dog. >>>> >>>>IMO - YMMV. >>> >>>Dann, >>> >>> You write as if it's really ProgramX vs. the Web (where the Web describes >>>thinking, chess playing individuals?). In reality I think the winning vote ends >>>up being ProgramX vs. ManyPrograms, with 'ManyProgams' thinking maybe 16 >>>min./move average but that's really just a guess on my part. The major vote >>>discrepancies I've observed seem due to opening book lines. Regards, B.K. >> >>Depends on who participates, doesn't it? >> >>I think this match was also broadcast to a wide audience. If it was known only >>here, that would probably be the case (with a few good chess players throuwn >>in). >> >>In any case, I think that the "X verses the World!" matches are little more than >>parlour tricks. In fact, I don't like them. > >Hi Dann, > >yes to many of this games, but all is not very important. >Important is that user have fun on the page and on chess programs. Gotta agree with that. Interpretations differ (however) about how to best maximize the fun part. >Not all have interest to play engine - engine matches, more people have interest >to make long analyses with chess programs. So is an experiment with a strong >chess program and hardware interesting in my opinion. > >01. The question is: > In how many time found Shredder a better move in position a or b ! > >02. The question is: > Is ply 17-18 enough (I think the best chess programs play with 2.400 ELO > in correspondence chess (no more). Shredder is a program with a lot of > knowledge, World Champion, very strong in endgame ... So why not play the chess engines in correspondence matches like Mr. Ham? Now that's interesting. >But very important is that the webpage is good enough. I think with a webpage >with different possibilies user have more fun on this event. > >We will see, I like the idea and I hope to find a lot of analyses with other >programs in the DEEP SHREDDER vs. THE WORLD forum. I think that "FOO verses THE WORLD" is always a case of bamboozlement. For some reason the world seemed to galvanize in the case against Kasparov, but I doubt if that will ever happen again. The energy could be better spent elsewhere. On the other hand, if a big army of people have great fun with it, then I should just shut up and let 'em have it.
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