Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:35:54 04/21/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 21, 2001 at 10:34:34, Duncan Stanley wrote: >On April 21, 2001 at 09:47:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On April 20, 2001 at 15:10:29, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>> >>>Well, shame on you for a dreadful title. >>> >>>To the point: Shredder is as far as I am concerned still comp world champion, >>>whether or not he plays the qualifiers, and if he plays, whether or not he wins. >>>That being said, and at the risk of appearing dense, what does it have to do >>>with it ? >>> >>>It's not even clear why he's not playing. The news that his objections are being >>>addressed were ignored, if not by him then certainly by this forum. >>> >>>This newsgroup is crazy. >>> >>>Amir >> >> >>I think "greed" _is_ the issue. Otherwise I can't imagine why program >>authors would not simply say "Hey, Shredder holds both the WMCCC and WCCC >>titles. It certainly has earned the right to challenge/play Kramnik." >> > >The organisers can do exactly whatever they want when it comes to finding a >challenger. > >They can call the challenge match by anything they want, and they are not >calling it a "World Championship", although that would be quite legal to do so. > Actually it would not be legal to do so. At least in the world of Computer Chess, ICCA holds the rights to the two titles in question. But I have no problem with ChessBase challenging Kramnik and putting up the prize fund just like IBM did. I do have a problem with them saying "The best human vs the best computer" because the best computer was decided in Paderborn in 1999 and it isn't Fritz or Junior. >Nobody has a monopoly on "World Champion" as an expression. Depends on the definition. "World Computer Chess Champion" is a title that has been awarded by the ICCA since it was formed in 1977. Ditto for "World MicroComputer Chess Champion". Both FIDE and PCA have a world champion title, but it is always given as "FIDE world champion" for example. If it is "Bob's basement world champion" then it has a bit less pizazz... and a bit more honesty too... > >To call, as an outsider of the BGN, for an open challenge match, an invited >challenge match, that program X or program Y should challenge, that no program >should challenge, that an SSDF program should challenge, that experts should >decide, that the World Champ program shoud play, whatever, is all *political*. A >case can be made out, using whatever logical construct is available, for any of >the above options, or any combination of them, or something different. > >Equally all or any options can be attacked or argued with, using yet more >'logical' constructs. > >Nobody has a monopoly on how it should be. There's right and wrong on all sides. > >In my humble opinion, the attempt to promote Shredder 8only* by yourself and >Bruce Moreland, has no more or less merit than any other case. All it appears to >be doing is allowing yourselves to take a spurious moral high ground in which >you both appear to be somehow more worthy than those 'terrible' commercials, >whose 'low moral' levels you keep on referring to. If "greed" == "low morals" then you are right. Because there is a lot at stake here in terms of publicity (and the potential sales as a result of it). If, as it was originally called, "human world champion vs computer world champion" then it _must_ be shredder. If it is "human world champion vs a strong computer program named Fritz" then that is fine IMHO. But the title "world champion" is presently _owned_ by the ICCA (when applied to computers) and it is currently in SMK/Shredder's "hands" until they lose it at the next WMCCC or WCCC event. I have no intention of making _anybody_ look bad. They are doing quite a good job of that by themselves. I am simply saying that the organization that I joined in 1977, was formed just for this purpose, and the titles ought to be respected by _everybody_. _not_ just the amateur programs...
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