Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:40:48 04/27/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 27, 2001 at 12:43:56, Christophe Theron wrote: >On April 27, 2001 at 02:44:13, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On April 26, 2001 at 19:09:02, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On April 26, 2001 at 16:19:10, Peter Berger wrote: >>> >>>>On April 26, 2001 at 15:29:16, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 25, 2001 at 17:31:10, Peter Berger wrote: >>>>>>It's similar when it is about proper implementation of draw rules btw . Offering >>>>>>draws is only allowed when you have showed your move ; claiming draw by >>>>>>repetition or 50 moves rule - this should be done by claiming draw saying : " I >>>>>>reach draw by playing blablabla . " - no program does this properly . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>As far as I know you can claim a draw by repetition or 50 moves rules either >>>>>before or after you move. >>>>> >>>>>As soon as the condition for the draw is met, you can claim it. The condition >>>>>can be met before you move, so you can claim a draw before you move. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Christophe >>>> >>>>OK ; let's get nerdish : >>>> >>>>Article 9: The drawn game >>>> >>>>9.1 A player can propose a draw after making a move on the chessboard. He must >>>>do so before stopping his own clock and starting his opponent's clock. An offer >>>>at any other time during play is still valid, but Article 12.5 must be >>>>considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer >>>>cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it >>>>orally, rejects it by making a move, or the game is concluded in some other way. >>>> >>>>The offer of a draw shall be noted by each player on his scoresheet with the >>>>symbol (=). >>>> >>>>9.2 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when >>>>the same position, for at least the third time (not necessarily by repetition of >>>>moves) >>>> >>>>is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and declares >>>>to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or >>>>has just appeared. >>>>Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the >>>>move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the >>>>possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. >>>>Positions are not the same if a pawn could have been captured en passant or if >>>>the right to castle immediately or in the future has been changed. >>>> >>>> >>>>9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, if >>>> >>>>he writes on his scoresheet, and declares to the arbiter his intention to make a >>>>move which shall result in the last 50 moves having been made by each player >>>>without the movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece, or >>>>the last 50 consecutive moves have been made by each player without the movement >>>>of any pawn and without the capture of any piece. >>>> >>>> >>>>9.4 If the player makes a move without having claimed the draw he loses the >>>>right to claim, as in Article 9.2 or 9.3, on that move . >>>> >>>>9.5 If a player claims a draw as in Article 9.2 or 9.3 he shall immediately stop >>>>both clocks. He is not allowed to withdraw his claim. >>>> >>>>If the claim is found to be correct the game is immediately drawn. >>>>If the claim is found to be incorrect, the arbiter shall deduct half of the >>>>claimant's remaining time up to a maximum of three minutes and add three minutes >>>>to the opponent's remaining time. Then the game shall continue and the intended >>>>move must be made. >>>> >>>>9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot >>>>occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play. >>>>This immediately ends the game. >>>> >>>> >>>>You are right - repeating the rules of chess is still useful though I think . >>>>There is a proper way of doing it ( the one I mentioned ) ; there are also some >>>>exceptions which are tolerated ( like the ones you mentioned ) and then there >>>>are the things which are simply not considered OK ( like the way all commercial >>>>programs who are able to offer draw except Gandalf do it ) . >>> >>> >>> >>>Well... I remember that I had to deal with this discussion already. At that time >>>I had read the rules again and concluded that the way computers do it was OK. >>> >>>Maybe I did not have the same rules as you (?!). >>> >>>Anyway, in case of a draw by repetition, if the game is drawn by repetition by >>>the last move of the opponent, then I can ALWAYS make another move that will >>>also be a draw by repetition. >> >>No you cannot always do it. >>Example: >> >>[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1 >>after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng1 Ng8 3.Nh3 Nf6 4.Ng1 Ng8 the position is a draw by third >>repetition but you cannot make a move in order to get third repetition after >>your move. >> >>Uri > > > >Argh... That's right. > >Then all chess programs do it wrong !? > > > > Christophe No I know that the chess rules allow to claim a draw by repetition without doing a move if the same position repeated 3 times. see the or in 9.2 "or has just appeared. Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same." Uri
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