Author: Kurt Utzinger
Date: 11:43:37 05/03/01
Go up one level in this thread
On May 03, 2001 at 13:49:04, John Merlino wrote: >On May 03, 2001 at 06:26:19, Kurt Utzinger wrote: > >>You are right: The CM8_Utzinger is much better at longer time controls. >> >>But please again note my already at CCC published objection against playing >>Chessmaster.CMP's against each other: >> >>You will have noticed that I do never play CM8_default vs CM8_Utzinger or >>similar matches between the various CM8_personalities. It is my deepest >>conviction that such trials are more or less a waste of time. At first I have >>made this too but soon recognized that whatever settings are used vs other top >>programs, the supposed best CM8_setting at a given time control had [like >>CM8_default] not much chances against Junior6a or most other top programs. >>Furthermore I have investigated about 150 test positions with six CM8_settings >>[CM8 default, and 5 others, no Chessmaster.CMP already defined in CM8] only to >>see that they all were close together. In any case: with these tests it was >>simply not possible to define the best CM8_setting. And funny, Chessmaster_8000 >>default took second/third place in these tests, the same CM8 which does not >>succeed in the expected manner against other top programs. All these tests and >>trials confirmed to me that it is somewhat useless to find the top CM8_setting >>by let different CM8_personalities playing each other. And frankly spoken, who >>in the chess world is interested in knowing that [let's say as an example] the >>CM8_Titan [nothing against you Graham!] wins most of the time against any other >>Chessmaster 8000 personality. Such a statement does not bring anything if the >>same CM8_personality does not obtain fairly good results [at least 50 % is >>required] against other top programs like ChessTiger14, Crafty, Fritz6, >>GambitTiger2, Gandalf432h, Hiarcs732, Nimzo732, Shredder5 and so on. >> >>Kurt > >I completely understand your point, but there are two kinds of Chessmaster users >to consider here: the kind the represent the users of this board, and the other >95% (or more). > >The users here are (typically) owners of multiple chess programs (for various >reasons). And many of them are interested in finding "the best" one of them all. >This, of course, leads to people who keep upgrading and testing new versions >against old versions, etc. etc. etc.... > >The OTHER 95+% of Chessmaster owners have ONLY Chessmaster (although they may >have more than one version), and my testing is intended for them. All I'm >interested in is finding the best OVERALL settings CONFINED to the Chessmaster >world. If some settings can be found that are clearly equal or stronger over ALL >time controls and on ALL hardware (which is what the default settings are >intended to be), then I will definitely sit up and take notice (as I have done >with CM_Utzinger). But, if someone creates a personality that is fantastic at >blitz but weak at longer time controls, then I am not interested. > >jm At first glance a logical explanation. As far a blitz is concerned I would not care much about playing strength. Even a "bad" CM8_personality beats 98 % of all chess players. And if the same CM8.cmp is good at longer time controls this might even convince the OTHER 5+% that still have not bought a Chessmaster and all those who are more intersted in a good program for anylising purposes. Am I wrong in assuming that the OTHER 95+% of Chessmaster owners are more or less only interested in using the nice features of the Chessmaster than in playing strength? On the other hand I do also understand your point of view and maybe the selling policy of CM proves that I am on the wrong way. If so however, all the work done to improve the CM8_settings are for me and similar persons rather useless. Kurt
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