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Subject: Re: The Moral of the Story is

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:58:18 05/04/01

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On May 04, 2001 at 18:14:20, Bertil Eklund wrote:

>On May 04, 2001 at 15:02:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 03, 2001 at 11:10:51, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>
>>>On May 03, 2001 at 10:45:45, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 03, 2001 at 06:37:52, Larry Proffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>The so called impartial experts should recommend the "best" programs not all
>>>>>>programs in the world that in theory can be better. In April I believed that it
>>>>>>was Fritz, Junior, Shredder and Tiger(s) (alphabtical order). I don't believe it
>>>>>>is a coincidence that the best programs ARE commercial.
>>>>>
>>>>>But this was not a pre-condition as suggested elsewhere by others ....
>>>>
>>>>That one was killed a long time ago IIRC, by various reports from the involved
>>>>parties. The only requirements stated then and since was the SMP capability and
>>>>naturally significant (superior) strength of the engines involved. Of course you
>>>>can choose to invent interests of the sponsors and the obviousness of the
>>>>superior strength of commercial programs. Some have tried that without much
>>>>success IMO.
>>>>
>>>>The real problem is the experts opinion of the strength and availability issue.
>>>>Forming an opinion on the strongest programs without even a rudimentary
>>>>investigation is nonsensical by default. AFAIK you do not develop psychic
>>>>abilities after being involved with computer chess for 25 years. The organizers
>>>>would have a real explanatory problem if they included the SMP Tiger.
>>>
>>>
>>>It wasn't time to play around and invite 200 programs. Instead you can check the
>>>results from the SSDF-list, tournaments from a lot of people and so on.
>>>Therefore it is quite easy to see that the four best (comp-comp) programs are
>>>Fritz, Junior, Shredder and Tiger(s). Of course you can suggest 100 other ways
>>>to check the strength, if you had all the money and all the time in the world.
>>>
>>>Which programs are better then the above? Give me five, so can we see how many
>>>that agrees with you.
>>
>>
>>That is simply _wrong_.  SSDF doesn't test with SMP hardware, so using the
>>SSDF list to choose the best SMP programs is meaningless.
>>
>>As far as programs better than the above, how about Crafty on a 64 cpu Alpha
>>system?
>>
>>Or ferret since he can almost use that hardware (it would take some changes but
>>not a rewrite).
>>
>>You are using a tiddly-winks rating list to choose who is going to a
>>discus-throw event.  The best indicator would be the last WCCC tournament
>>which had SMP and non-SMP programs in it.
>>
>>Rather than logic, we get this nonsense...
>
>Ok! Give me these five programs that are better then the above mentioned.
>Of course the above programs can't use 2-4 or 8 cpus, it is just a gimmick from
>the programmers. I have seen some tests from these programs that "fooled" me to
>believe that they could use multi-processors. Ok, Crafty, Ferret and a few
>others are better with multi-cpus but Fritz, Junior and Shredder are still the
>same as with one cpu.
>
>Bertil


I can't answer for Fritz, Junior and Shredder.  But I can definitely answer for
Crafty and can say with no hesitation that it is not the same on a single cpu
and a quad-cpu machine.  I really don't think that Fritz or Junior are the same
either.  Both should get reasonable performance and a factor of even 3 on an
8-cpu machine makes a _huge_ difference as it is a ply or more.



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