Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 00:06:32 05/13/01
Go up one level in this thread
On May 12, 2001 at 21:58:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On May 12, 2001 at 10:55:18, Larry Proffer wrote:
>
>>On May 12, 2001 at 10:13:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 12, 2001 at 07:25:50, Larry Proffer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 12, 2001 at 02:17:18, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 11, 2001 at 21:56:55, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>>Ahem... Given the current stream of events what were the odds that the Ferret
>>>>>>game would come to Keene's mind just by chance?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In particular a LOST game from 5 years ago?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is the subliminal message behind his paper?
>>>>>
>>>>>:-)))
>>>>>
>>>>>>Look... Now I'm talking exactly like Larry Proffer! :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christophe
>>>>>
>>>>>right. and the reason is that you feel that the message is:
>>>>>
>>>>>keene has been influenced by misleading data, he got manipulated.
>>>>>
>>>>>there have been people trying to influence the event with showing wrong
>>>>>and misleading information. WHY?
>>>>>
>>>>>because they wanted all the money and the fame and the control over the event,
>>>>>FOR THEMSELVES.
>>>>
>>>>But Chessbase have very generously pledged the money (if they win) of four
>>>>hundred thousand US dollars to a young players fund - or so it says on their
>>>>website.
>>>>
>>>>So that's $400,000 for the program if it wins, and $600,000 for Kramnik who
>>>>would correspondlingly lose.
>>>
>>>You are missing the point. ChessBase isn't playing for the "prize" money.
>>>They are playing for the advertising/free publicity. _That_ is worth far more
>>>than $400,000.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>However, if Kramnik wins, he gets $800,000; and since I read somewhere the total
>>>>prize money is $1,000,000, would it be reasonable to assume therefore, that if
>>>>the program loses, it gets $200,000 ?
>>>>
>>>>Does anyone know if this is true? $400,000 for a win, $200,000 for a draw or
>>>>loss?
>>>
>>>Whomever came up with that way of doing prizes was 100% brain-dead. Why not
>>>just say "human gets it all, whether he wins or loses" and be done with it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Also, if true, is Chessbase generously pledging the $200,000 to the "young
>>>>players fund" (if they lose)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It seems to me that Chessbase are an honourable and reasonable company; so your
>>>>statement that "they wanted all the money" can't be true if "they" is Chessbase.
>>>>Otherwise why give it all away so generously if they win?
>>>
>>>
>>>It isn't about the prize money, whether ChessBase is honorable or not. It is
>>>about the publicity, which the computer will get whether it wins or loses. It
>>>appears to be the "best computer chess program in the world" to the general
>>>layperson.
>>
>>It is hard to disagree with you.
>>
>>But, still the question is begged ....
>>
>>Why did Ossi throw all this free publicity for Shredder and minimum $200,000
>>away?
>
>
>I don't know, but I could at least speculate a bit:
>
>1. Shredder is the current WCCC and WMCCC titleholder.
>
>2. Beating Deep Fritz in a match would not be easy. Say it is a toss-up.
>that means a coin-flip could negate the two titles Shredder holds.
>
>3. Perhaps it is better to hold on to those titles, refuse to play, and look
>like you got the shaft, rather than play and possibly end up looking worse if
>the match is lost.
>
>IE a lot to lose, but a lot to gain. If you believe the gain is less than the
>loss, then you don't play.
I think you overestimate widely the financial value of WCCC+WMCCC. Compared to
the publicity of the event, my opinion is that it is peanuts. Having these
titles is nice, and I'm not trying to belittle the merits of the owner of these
titles, but the financial reality is something else...
On the other hand, if you do not believe in the chances of your program, then of
course you don't go for it...
But Ossi Weiner says that he is not forbidding the SSDF to list Shredder
anymore. So if you are ready to take the risk of not being listed in first
position by the SSDF, which is a little bit like taking the risk of breaking the
"World Champion" image, then why not play against Deep Fritz, which even in the
worst case (losing) is rewarded by worldwide publicity? You'll be seen as
second-best program in the world for millions of people, instead of being seen
as strongest program for a handful of people. And probably million of people
will not remember if you were beaten or not, will simply remember that Shredder
has played, that Shredder is at the very top, and will grab the Shredder package
as soon as they see it at the supermarket, throwing it without even looking at
the price in their caddies.
I fail to understand the logic behind Weiner's reasonning.
And believe me, when you can see such a lack of logic in the behaviour of such a
smart guy, you can be sure that you are missing some bloody important part of
the information.
Christophe
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.