Author: Peter Berger
Date: 13:35:23 05/13/01
Quite an impressive list now - some more results availlable ? ( thanks for
posting them then )
Dislaimer : I _don't_ think this test is able to predict the "real" USCF ratings
of chessprograms. I think it's an interesting testset though .
13-May-2001, Deep Fritz, 64MB hash, PIII800, Win?.
15" 30" 1' 2' Pts
-------------+---------+---------+---------+---------+------
1 Qb3 | Qb3 1 | Qb3 1 | Qb3 1 | Qb3 1 | +4
2 Bc8 | Bc8 1 | Bc8 1 | Bc8 1 | Bc8 1 | +4
3 Nh6 | Nh6 1 | Nh6 1 | Nh6 1 | Nh6 1 | +4
4 b4 | Rfc1 0 | Rfc1 0 | Rfc1 0 | Rfc1 0 | 0
5 e5 | e5 1 | e5 1 | e5 1 | e5 1 | +4
6 Bxc3+ | Bxc3+ 1 | Bxc3+ 1 | Bxc3+ 1 | Bxc3+ 1 | +4
7 Rfb8 | Bb7 0 | Bc4 0 | Bc4 0 | Bc4 0 | 0
8 d5 | 0-0 0 | 0-0 0 | 0-0 0 | 0-0 0 | 0
9 Nd4 | Nd4 1 | Nb8 0 | Nb8 0 | Nd4 1 | +2
10 a4 | a4 1 | a4 1 | a4 1 | a4 1 | +4
11 d5 | exf4 0 | exf4 0 | exf4 0 | exf4 0 | 0
12 Bxf7+ | Bxf7+ 1 | Bxf7+ 1 | Bxf7+ 1 | Bxf7+ 1 | +4
13 not Ne4 | d5 1 | d5 1 | d5 1 | Qe8 1 | +4
14 not Nxc4 | f6 1 | f6 1 | f6 1 | f6 1 | +4
15 exf6 | exf6 1 | exf6 1 | exf6 1 | exf6 1 | +4
16 d5 | exd4 0 | exd4 0 | exd4 0 | exd4 0 | 0
17 not hxg4 | Qe2 1 | Qe2 1 | d3 1 | d3 1 | +4
18 Bxf6 | Bxf6 1 | Bxf6 1 | Bxf6 1 | Bxf6 1 | +4
19 Bxe6 | Bxe6 1 | Bxe6 1 | Bxe6 1 | Bxe6 1 | +4
20 Ndb5 | Ndb5 1 | Ndb5 1 | Ndb5 1 | Ndb5 1 | +4
21 not Kxe6 | dxe6 1 | dxe6 1 | dxe6 1 | dxe6 1 | +4
22 a4 | ?? 0 | ?? 0 | ?? 0 | ?? 0 | 0
23 Bxh7+ | Bxh7+ 1 | Bxh7+ 1 | Bxh7+ 1 | Bxh7+ 1 | +4
24 Nxe5 | Nxe5 1 | Nxe5 1 | Nxe5 1 | Nxe5 1 | +4
25 not Qxb3 | Nxc6 1 | Nxc6 1 | Nxc6 1 | Nxc6 1 | +4
-------------+---------+---------+---------+---------+------
Total | 19 | 18 | 18 | 19 | 74
Ranking : "Kaufmann rating" ( based on USCF scheme)
1. Comet B.33 on Athlon 1333 2688
2. Deep Shredder on 2xPIII1000 2680
3. CM9DEEP (CM8000 personality) on K6-2/500 2672
4. Comet dev version on K6/450 2664
5. Deep Junior 6 on PIII733 2664
6. Chester v0.965 on Athlon 1200 2664
7. Nimzo 8 on PIII733 2640
8. Chess System Tal 2.03 on Athlon 1333 2632
8. Genius 5 on Athlon 1333 2632
10. Genius 3 on P 75 2624
11. Genius 2 on 586/133 2624
12. Shredder 5.0 on PIII500 2616
13. Rebel Century 3.0 on PIII600 2616
14. Green Light Chess v2.13 on Duron 920 2616
15. Genius3solid (Genius3 personality) on P75 2608
16. LG2000V3 on PIII600 2608
17. Chess Tiger 14.0 on Athlon 1333 2608
18. Yace 0.99.17 on PIII500 2600
19. Tinker dev version on PIII733 2600
20. Deep Fritz on PIII800 2592
21. Safe Bringer(Br1.8 pers. on Athlon 1333) 2592
22. Pepito v1.23 on K6/400 2584
23. Gandalf 4.32h on PIII500 2584
24. Gambit Tiger 2.0 on PIII600 2584
25. Hiarcs 3 on 486 50/66 2576
26. Bringer 1.9beta on Athlon 1333 2568
26. Fritz 6(17/02/2001) on Athlon 1333 2568
28. Quark v1.xx auf PII/400 2560
29. monsoon dev version on K6-3/450 2560
30. Hiarcs 7.32 on Athlon 1333 2560
31. Pretz dev version on PII400 2552
32. Screamer Chess b58 on G4 Laptop 2552
33. Patzer 3.51 on PIII450 2544
34. Bringer 1.8 on PIII500 2536
35. PostModernist dev version on Athlon 1200 2536
36. Crafty 17.13 on 4xUS-II400 2536
37. Fritz 3 on K6-2/500 2528
38. Chessmaster 4000 on 486 50/66 2520
39. Crafty 18.9 on PIII500 2520
40. BerlinPRO on 68000 2512
41. Fritz 3 on 486 50/66 2488
42. MChessPRO 4 on 486 50/66 2488
43. Gaviota v0.2.1 on PIII700 2488
44. Fritz 2 on 486 50/66 2440
45. Gideon PRO on 486 50/66 2440
46. Kasparov RISC 2500 2432
47. MChessPro 3.5 on 486 50/66 2432
47. Kallisto on 486 50/66 2432
49. Comet A.28 on 486/66 2416
50. Mephisto Portorose 68020 2408
51. WChess on 486 50/66 2408
52. Mephisto RISC 1 2400
53. Mephisto Vancouver 68020 2384
54. Fritz 1 on 486 50/66 2376
55. Mephisto BERLIN 2352
56. Mephisto Almeria 68020 2336
57. Hiarcs 2 on 286 2280
58. ChessGenius 1.3 on Palm 29MHz 2256
59. Radio Shack 2250XXL 2248
60. MChess 1 on 286 2248
61. Mephisto Almeria 6800 2240
62. Fidelity MACH4/2325 2232
63. Mephisto Roma 68000 2216
64. Mephisto Amsterdam 2192
65. Fidelity MACH 3 2176
65. Mephisto MM V 2176
67. Mephisto Academy 2160
A few contenders facing a subset of some difficult positions (CCR 4,5,8,10,11,16
and 22):
Deep Shredder on 2xPIII1000 solved: CCR 4,5,8,10,11
Deep Junior 6 on PIII733 solved: CCR 5,8,10,11,16
Chester v0.965 on Athlon 1200 solved : CCR 5,8,10,11,16
CM9DEEP (CM8000 personality) on K6-2/500 solved: CCR 4,5,10,11,16??
Comet B.33 on Athlon 1333 solved: CCR 5,8,10,11
Comet dev version on K6/450 solved : CCR 5,8,10,11
Nimzo 8 on PIII733 solved: CCR 5,8,10,11
Chess System Tal 2.03 on Athlon 1333 solved: CCR 5,10,11,16
Genius 5 on Athlon 1333 solved: CCR 4,5,10,16
Century 3.0 on PIII600 solved: CCR 5,10,11,16
Tinker dev version on PIII733 solved: CCR 5,8,11,16
Hiarcs 7.32 on Athlon 1333 solved: CCR 5,10,11,16
Gaviota v0.2.1 on PIII700 solved: CCR 5,10,11,16
Patzer 3.51 on PIII450 solved: CCR 5,10,11,16
Fritz 3 on K6-2/500 solved: CCR 4,5??,10,16??
Genius 2 on 586/133 solved : CCR 4,5,10
Shredder 5.0 on PIII500 solved : CCR 5,10,11
Green Light Chess v2.13 on Duron 920 solved: CCR 5,10,11
LG2000V3 on PIII600 solved: CCR 4,10,11
Gandalf 4.32h on PIII500 solved: CCR 5,10,11
Gambit Tiger 2.0 on PIII600 solved : CCR 4,5,10
Fritz 6(17/02/2001) on Athlon 1333 solved: CCR 4,10,16
Quark v1.xx on PII/400 solved: CCR 5,10,11
ChessGenius 1.3 on Palm 29MHz solved: CCR 5,10 (11 and 16 discarded because in
opening book)
Chess Tiger 14.0 on Athlon 1333 solved: CCR 5,10
Yace 0.99.17 on PIII500 solved : CCR 10,16
Deep Fritz on PIII800 solved: CCR 5,10
monsoon dev version on K6-3/450 solved: CCR 5,8
Screamer Chess b58 on G4 Laptop solved : CCR 5,10
PostModernist dev version on Athlon 1200 solved : CCR 8,10
Crafty 17.13 on 4xUS-II400 solved : CCR 10,16
Crafty 18.9 on PIII500 solved : CCR 10,16
Safe Bringer(Br1.8 pers. on Athlon 1333) solved: CCR 5
Bringer 1.9beta on Athlon1333 solved: CCR 5
Pretz dev version on PII400 solved : CCR 10
Radio Shack 2250 Chess Champion solved : CCR 5
Pepito v1.23 on K6/400 solved : ??
Bringer 1.8 on PIII500 solved :
Positions still remaining unsolved :
CCR 22
Thanks to Miguel A. Ballicora, Uri Blass, William Bryant, Carlos del Cacho, Tim
Foden, Scott Gasch,
Brian Kostick, Thomas Mayer, Jeff Lischer, Paul, Roland Pfister, Brian
Richardson,
Ulrich Tuerke, Steve Timson, Dana Turnmire, Andrew Williams and Slater Wold for
posting your results !
Cheers.
pete
More information about the test ( necessary as the original post fades away to
the archives forever) :
Posted by Dana Turnmire on May 01, 2001 at 04:25:54:
The test is very simple. Set the level to infinite, turn off the opening book
and thinking on opponent's time if possible. Play out the moves to the problem
position. Note the choice moves after 15", 30", 1', and 2'. Score one point
for each correct move found or each bad move avoided at each of the four time
intervals. The most points possible for each test set is 4. If the correct
move is shown at 15" but not at the 1 minute mark 1 point would still be given.
To get an estimated USCF rating, multiply the test score by 8 and add it to 2000
(for British ratings, add 1900, for Swedish, add 1800).
1. Slav Defense. 1d4 d5 2c4 c6 3Nc3 Nf6 4e3 Bf5 5cxd5 cxd5. White to play.
Solution 6 Qb3! See next problem.
2. Slav Defense. Black to play after 6Qb3 in problem 1. Solution 6...Bc8!
While this leaves white with a clear lead in development, other moves lead to
worse trouble. One example is 6...Qd7 7Nf3 Nc6 8Ne5 Nxe5? 9dxe5 N-any? 10Bb5
wins.
3. Queen's Gambit Accepted. 1d4 d5 2c4 dxc4 3e4 e5 4Nf3 exd4 5Bc4 Bb4+ 6Bd2
Bxd2 7Nbd2 Nc6 8 0-0 Nf6 9e5 Ng4 10h3. Black to play. Solution 10...Nh6!. The
point is that if instead 10...Ngxe5? 10Nxe5 Nxe5 11Re1 f6 12f4 or 11...Qf6
12Nf3, and black cannot retain enough compensation for the knight.
4. Queen's Gambit Declined. 1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Nf6 4cxd5 exd5 5Bg5 c6 6Qc2
Be7 7e3 Nbd7 8Bd3 0-0 9Nf3 Re8 10 0-0 Nf8 11Rab1 g6. White to move. Solution
12b4!, the minority attack and the point of the previous move.
5. Marshall's defense to Queen's Gambit. 1d4 d5 2c4 Nf6 3cxd5 Nxd5 4e4 Nf6
5Nc3. Black to move. Solution 5...e5!. If 6dxe5 Qxd1+ 7Kxd1 Nf4, and black
recovers the pawn favorably.
6. Nimzoindian Defense. 1d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Bb4 4Qc2 0-0 5a3. Black to move.
Solution 5...Bxc3+!, "sacrificing" the bishop pair for no tangible compensation,
since retreating the bishop to e7 allows white too dominating a center.
7. Benko Gambit. 1d4 Nf6 2c4 c5 3d5 b5 4cxb5 a6 5bxa6 Bxa6 6Nc3 d6 7Nf3 g6 8g3
Bg7 9Bg2 0-0 10 0-0 Nbd7 11Re1 Qb6 12h3. Black to move. Solution 12...Rfb8!,
so that one rook will be posted on each semi-open file.
8. Queen's Indian Defense. 1d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3Nf3 b6 4g3 Bb7 5Bg2 c5. White to
move. Solution 6d5!, after which if 6...exd5 7Nh4! will recover the pawn thanks
to the pin. If 6d5 didn't work here, everyone would play 5...c5, but as it is,
the move is rarely seen in master play.
9. King's Indian Defense. 1d4 Nf6 2c4 g6 3Nc3 Bg7 4e4 d6 5f3 0-0 6Be3 Nc6
7Nge2 a6 8Nc1 e5 9d5. Black to move. Solution 9...Nd4!, which does not lose a
pawn because if 10Bxd4 exd4 11Qxd4 Nxe4! 12Qxe4 Re8. White should instead play
10Nb3 or 10Nc1-e2, but black is better off here than he would be after a passive
knight retreat on move 9.
10. Benoni. 1d4 Nf6 2c4 c5 3d5 e6 4Nc3 exd5 5cxd5 d6 6e4 g6 7Nf3 Bg7 8Be2 0-0
9 0-0 Re8 10Nd2 a6 White to move. Solution 11a4!, restraining black from
counterplay by ...b5.
11. Vienna Game. 1e4 e5 2Nc3 Nf6 3f4. Black to move, solution 3...d5!,
answering a wing attack by a central thrust. Taking the f pawn is not so good
here as in the King's gambit.
12. Philidor's Defense. 1e4 e5 2Nf3 d6 3Bc4 Be7 4d4 exd4 5Nxd4 Nd7?. White to
move. Solution 6Bxf7+!, intending after 6...Kxf7 7Ne6! and if 7...Kxe6 8Qd5+
Kf6 9Qf5 mate.
13. Petrov's Defense. 1e4 e5 2Nf3 Nf6 3Nxe5 d6 4Nxf7?! (the Cochrane Gambit)
Kxf7 5d4. Black to move. Solution: avoid 5...Nxe4?, because of 6Qh5+ Ke7 7Qe2
d5 8Bg5+ wins.
14. Bishop's opening. 1e4 e5 2Bc4 Nf6 3d4 exd4 4Nf3 Nxe4 5Qxd4 Nd6 6 0-0.
Black to play. Solution: avoid the natural 6...Nxc4?, then 7Re1+ Be7 because of
8Qxg7 Rf8 9Bh6 and the threat of 10Qxf8 cannot be parried without decisive
material loss.
15. Ruy Lopez. 1e4 e5 2Nf3 Nc6 3Bb5 a6 4Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6Re1 b5 7Bb3 d6 8c3
0-0 9d4 Bg4 10Be3 Na5?! 11dxe5! Nxb3?. White to move. Solution 12exf6!,
because after 12...Nxa1 13fxe7 Qxe7 14Nbd2, and the black knight in the corner
is lost. Although black gets rook plus pawn for two minor pieces (equal
according to the beginner's 1-3-3-5-9 count), good players know that two pieces
are nearly always stronger than rook and pawn, except in very simplified
endings.
16. Ruy Lopez Open Defense. 1e4 e5 2Nf3 Nc6 3Bb5 a6 4Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Nxe4 6d4 b5
7Bb3. Black to move. Solution 7...d5!, returning the pawn in the best way,
since 7...exd4 will only keep black a pawn up for a few moves.
17. Ruy Lopez Steinitz Defense Deferred. 1e4 e5 2Nf3 Nc6 3Bb5 a6 4Ba4 d6 50-0
Bg4 6h3 h5 7Bxc6+ bxc6. Solution: avoid 8hxg4? since after 8...hxg4 9Ne1? Qh4
10f3 g3 with mate next. White can avoid the mate by 9g3, returning the knight,
but black should still stand better with his rook on an open file near the white
king.
18. Sicilian Defense. Richter-Rauser Attack. 1e4 c5 2Nf3 Nc6 3d4 cxd4 4Nxd4
Nf6 5Nc3 d6 6Bg5 e5?. White to move: Solution: 7Bxf6!, "sacrificing" the
bishop pair. If 7...Qxf6? 8Nd5 Qd8 9Nb5 and black is in big trouble. Instead
7...gxf6 8Nf5 Bxf5 9eXf5 leaves white with the better position.
19. Sicilian Najdorf, Sozin variation. 1e4 c5 2Nf3 d6 3d4 cxd4 4Nxd4 Nf6 5Nc3
a6 6Bc4 e6 7 0-0 b5 8Bb3 Bb7 9Re1 Be7?!. White to move. Solution: 10Bxe6!,
sacrificing the bishop for three pawns. This is not quite enough material
compensation for a bishop in the early part of the game, but here black's king
is denuded, so the sacrifice is fully justified.
20. Sicilian, Taimanov variation. 1e4 c5 2Nf3 Nc6 3d4 cxd4 4Nxd4 e6 5Nc3 Qc7
6Be2 a6 7Be3 Nge7?. Solution 8Nd4-b5!, so that after 8...axb5 9Nxb5 Qa5+ 10Bd2
Qb6 11Nd6+ Kd8 12Nxf7+, winning material.
21. Sicilian Accelerated Dragon. 1e4 c5 2Nf3 Nc6 3d4 cxd4 4Nxd4 g6 5Nc3 Bg7
6Be3 Nf6 7Bc4 0-0 8Bb3 Na5? 9e5 Ne8 10Bxf7+! Kxf7 11Ne6! (Fischer vs Reshevsky).
Black to move. Solution: avoid 11...Kxe6?, which allows a forced mate. Black
must therefore lose his queen to two minor pieces, which is at least better than
getting mated. Note that the sacrifice on move 11 is not a suitable test for a
computer, because it will be chosen quickly since it immediately allows
perpetual check if accepted, and since white has already sacrificed he will not
mind forcing a draw.
22. Caro-Kann defense. 1e4 c6 2d4 d5 3exd5 cxd5 4Bd3 Nc6 5c3 Nf6 6Bf4 Bg4 7Qb3
Na5 8Qa4+ Bd7 9Qc2 e6 10Nf3 Qb6. White to move. Solution 11a4! (from Fischer
vs Petrosian). This prevents black from exchanging off his bad bishop by
...Bb5. This problem is very hard for computers, not surprising considering
that the move was unknown by grandmasters until Fischer played it.
23. French Defense. (Winawer variation). 1e4 e6 2d4 d5 3Nc3 Bb4 4e5 Ne7 5Bd3
0-0 6Nh3 Nd7?. White to move. Solution 7Bxh7+! (if 7...Kxh7 8Qh5+ Kg8 9Ng5 Re8
10Qxf7+ Kh8 11Nxe6 wins).
24. Nimzovitch defense. 1e4 Nc6 2d4 d6 3Nc3 g6 4Nf3 Bg4 5d5 Ne5?. White to
move. Solution 6Nxe5! (if 6...Bxd1 7Bb5+ c6 8dxc6 and black must lose material.
25. Grob's Opening. 1g4 d5 2Bg2 Bxg4 3c4 c6 4cxd5 Nf6 5Qb3 Qb6 6dxc6. Black
to move. Solution: avoid 6...Qxb3? since 7cxb7! Qc4 8Na3 wins for white.
And the EPDs :
rn1qkb1r/pp2pppp/5n2/3p1b2/3P4/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1 id "CCR01"; bm
Qb3;
rn1qkb1r/pp2pppp/5n2/3p1b2/3P4/1QN1P3/PP3PPP/R1B1KBNR b KQkq - 1 1 id "CCR02";
bm Bc8;
r1bqk2r/ppp2ppp/2n5/4P3/2Bp2n1/5N1P/PP1N1PP1/R2Q1RK1 b kq - 1 10 id "CCR03"; bm
Nh6; am Ne5;
r1bqrnk1/pp2bp1p/2p2np1/3p2B1/3P4/2NBPN2/PPQ2PPP/1R3RK1 w - - 1 12 id "CCR04";
bm b4;
rnbqkb1r/ppp1pppp/5n2/8/3PP3/2N5/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - 3 5 id "CCR05"; bm e5;
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/P1N5/1PQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR b KQ - 1 5 id "CCR06"; bm
Bxc3+;
r4rk1/3nppbp/bq1p1np1/2pP4/8/2N2NPP/PP2PPB1/R1BQR1K1 b - - 1 12 id "CCR07"; bm
Rfb8;
rn1qkb1r/pb1p1ppp/1p2pn2/2p5/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK2R w KQkq c6 1 6 id "CCR08";
bm d5;
r1bq1rk1/1pp2pbp/p1np1np1/3Pp3/2P1P3/2N1BP2/PP4PP/R1NQKB1R b KQ - 1 9 id
"CCR09"; bm Nd4;
rnbqr1k1/1p3pbp/p2p1np1/2pP4/4P3/2N5/PP1NBPPP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 1 11 id "CCR10"; bm
a4;
rnbqkb1r/pppp1ppp/5n2/4p3/4PP2/2N5/PPPP2PP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq f3 1 3 id "CCR11"; bm
d5;
r1bqk1nr/pppnbppp/3p4/8/2BNP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 2 6 id "CCR12"; bm
Bxf7+;
rnbq1b1r/ppp2kpp/3p1n2/8/3PP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQ d3 1 5 id "CCR13"; am Ne4;
rnbqkb1r/pppp1ppp/3n4/8/2BQ4/5N2/PPP2PPP/RNB2RK1 b kq - 1 6 id "CCR14"; am Nxc4;
r2q1rk1/2p1bppp/p2p1n2/1p2P3/4P1b1/1nP1BN2/PP3PPP/RN1QR1K1 w - - 1 12 id
"CCR15"; bm exf6;
r1bqkb1r/2pp1ppp/p1n5/1p2p3/3Pn3/1B3N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQ1RK1 b kq - 2 7 id "CCR16";
bm d5;
r2qkbnr/2p2pp1/p1pp4/4p2p/4P1b1/5N1P/PPPP1PP1/RNBQ1RK1 w kq - 1 8 id "CCR17"; am
hxg4;
r1bqkb1r/pp3ppp/2np1n2/4p1B1/3NP3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QKB1R w KQkq e6 1 7 id "CCR18";
bm Bxf6+;
rn1qk2r/1b2bppp/p2ppn2/1p6/3NP3/1BN5/PPP2PPP/R1BQR1K1 w kq - 5 10 id "CCR19"; bm
Bxe6;
r1b1kb1r/1pqpnppp/p1n1p3/8/3NP3/2N1B3/PPP1BPPP/R2QK2R w KQkq - 3 8 id "CCR20";
bm Ndb5;
r1bqnr2/pp1ppkbp/4N1p1/n3P3/8/2N1B3/PPP2PPP/R2QK2R b KQ - 2 11 id "CCR21"; am
Kxe6;
r3kb1r/pp1b1ppp/1q2pn2/n2p4/3P1B2/2PB1N2/PPQ2PPP/RN2K2R w KQkq - 3 11 id
"CCR22"; bm a4;
r1bq1rk1/pppnnppp/4p3/3pP3/1b1P4/2NB3N/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R w KQ - 3 7 id "CCR23"; bm
Bxh7+;
r2qkbnr/ppp1pp1p/3p2p1/3Pn3/4P1b1/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 2 6 id
"CCR24"; bm Nxe5;
rn2kb1r/pp2pppp/1qP2n2/8/6b1/1Q6/PP1PPPBP/RNB1K1NR b KQkq - 1 6 id "CCR25"; am
Qxb3;
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.