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Subject: Re: Quiescence vs swapoff

Author: Peter Fendrich

Date: 14:21:35 04/17/98

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On April 17, 1998 at 00:36:18, Christophe Theron wrote:

- snip -
>>
>>The SEE code itself should be faster than Qsearch, shouldn't it?
>
>I don't think so.
>
>If your QSearch has only one, two or three positions to examine to get a
>cutoff, I bet it is faster than your SEE.
>
>That's why I said this is counterintuitive. If you try to imagine what a
>QSearch does, you can easily convince yourself that it is a very long
>process. Think: it has to try every capture in the position, then every
>capture in response, then... with no depth limit. If you assume there is
>always 2, 3 or 4 captures available in any position, you come very
>quickly to the conclusion that the QSearch has to be avoided by any
>mean.
>
>That's what I thought in 1981 when I was writting my first chess
>program. That's why I said that building a SEE was my very first idea
>(at that time, I didn't know if anybody else had already tried this
>idea).
>
>But QSearch is far more efficicient that it seems at first glance. For
>example, take Crafty and let it think on a position. At the end of the
>search, take a look at the number of total nodes visited, and the number
>of nodes visited in QSearch.
>
>I tried this with an old Crafty version, and it seems that QSearch
>visits only between 3 and 5 nodes for every node visited in the "full
>width" search. Maybe it is even less, due to the way Bob counts the
>nodes.
>
>For my program, Chess Tiger, the ratio is less than that.
>
>So depending on how your program is designed, a simple QSearch can be
>faster than the best SEE you'll ever design, and far more reliable.
>
>It may or may not be the case. Try it out.
>

Of cource you have a point but it still doesn't hold for me probably due
to different techniques which gives different views on this subject...
I use a bitboard approach and generating captures is really nothing
compared to going through a search.
Futhermore the swapoff can be reduced, it isn't necessary to go throug
all captures.
But in the end, the SEE isn't as accurate as the QSearch and I still
doesn't
know which method is best for the deep iterations.
One has to take into account that the QSearch misses more sofisticated
tactics as well.

When I make tests between different versions of my own program the
QSearch
version is slightly better but against other programs I don't see any
real
differences at all. That's why have a feeling that the SEE-version could
gain more by extended evaluation or extensions. I haven't tried that
yet.

Peter



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