Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Time to re-start discussion? Has there been any real progress in last

Author: José Carlos

Date: 11:24:53 06/04/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 04, 2001 at 14:03:45, Rajen Gupta wrote:

>On June 04, 2001 at 12:41:14, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On June 04, 2001 at 09:35:41, Rajen Gupta wrote:
>>
>>>On June 04, 2001 at 08:57:09, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 04, 2001 at 08:28:43, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>1/2/(5) years? Yes, if we remove benefit from better hardware, what is left??
>>>>>Any real improvement is playing level of top engines. 5 points from Nalimov
>>>>>may be?!
>>>>>
>>>>>Jouni
>>>>
>>>>  I think you cannot remove benefit from better hardware, because most
>>>>programmer adapt to new hardware to get better programs. For example, a lot of
>>>>programs have become SMP. This has happend because multiprocessor machines have
>>>>become cheaper, so it is a hardware improvement that leads to software
>>>>improvement.
>>>>  Besides that, you can chose your favourite program and compare versions. Let's
>>>>say Fritz. Compare strength of versions 4.01, 5.32, 6, Deep Fritz. I think you
>>>>can answer your own question, can't you?
>>>>
>>>>  José C.
>>>
>>>i'm not sure: see my previous post. get the chessbase engines to play each other
>>>from an individual copy of the same opening book-you'll be surprised at the lack
>>>of any difference in engine strength.i'm planning to play the 2 tigers vs j5,
>>>f5.32 and f6 light, all from individual copies of the same opening book(tiger
>>>book).also going to play f5.16 vs f4 vs h6)if there is no significant difference
>>>in playing strength between them (i have a suspicion that it might be the case)
>>>then i'll probably stop buying newer programmes.
>>>
>>>inmo 95% of the so-called increse in strength is purely the result of better
>>>opening books, book learning functions, access to endgametables and tuning
>>>against the immediate predecessor programmes.
>>
>>  I'm sorry but I'm not gonna argue about that, since IMO the opening books,
>>learning functions, endgame tables etc... _are part of the engine_. So the
>>discussion does not make sense for me.
>>  Just one suggestion: why don't you also disabe hash tables, null move,
>>pondering and alfa-beta to test the 'engine'? These are parts of the engine,
>>_exactly the same_ as opening books, learning functions, etc...
>>  I'm really very surprised about this discussion about the opening book not
>>being part of the engine.
>>  I suggest to let the programmers define _what is the engine_ and what are
>>peripherals. Or do you discuss with your car's mechanic _what is part of the
>>engine of the car_ and what is not?
>>
>>>i doubt one would get a better analysis of a data base from the newer programmes
>>>
>>>rajen
>>
>>  Just try it. Don't doubt, test.
>>
>>  José C.
>
>i dont quite know what you mean by all these things. the engine is purely the
>software that can calculate the chessmoves and the opening books is an opening
>database that a chessengine refers to when playing the first few moves of the
>game. any chessengine can use any database and i'm playing one engine vs another
>using the same opening database(which incidentally is separate from the engine.
>
>this will purely test the engine improvement and i doub that there is anything
>significant to tlak about
>
>rajen

  Ok, if you don't want to understand, it's your choice.

  josé C.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.