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Subject: Re: Time to re-start discussion? Has there been any real progress in last

Author: Rajen Gupta

Date: 12:28:11 06/04/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 04, 2001 at 14:24:53, José Carlos wrote:

>On June 04, 2001 at 14:03:45, Rajen Gupta wrote:
>
>>On June 04, 2001 at 12:41:14, José Carlos wrote:
>>
>>>On June 04, 2001 at 09:35:41, Rajen Gupta wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 04, 2001 at 08:57:09, José Carlos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 04, 2001 at 08:28:43, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>1/2/(5) years? Yes, if we remove benefit from better hardware, what is left??
>>>>>>Any real improvement is playing level of top engines. 5 points from Nalimov
>>>>>>may be?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>
>>>>>  I think you cannot remove benefit from better hardware, because most
>>>>>programmer adapt to new hardware to get better programs. For example, a lot of
>>>>>programs have become SMP. This has happend because multiprocessor machines have
>>>>>become cheaper, so it is a hardware improvement that leads to software
>>>>>improvement.
>>>>>  Besides that, you can chose your favourite program and compare versions. Let's
>>>>>say Fritz. Compare strength of versions 4.01, 5.32, 6, Deep Fritz. I think you
>>>>>can answer your own question, can't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>  José C.
>>>>
>>>>i'm not sure: see my previous post. get the chessbase engines to play each other
>>>>from an individual copy of the same opening book-you'll be surprised at the lack
>>>>of any difference in engine strength.i'm planning to play the 2 tigers vs j5,
>>>>f5.32 and f6 light, all from individual copies of the same opening book(tiger
>>>>book).also going to play f5.16 vs f4 vs h6)if there is no significant difference
>>>>in playing strength between them (i have a suspicion that it might be the case)
>>>>then i'll probably stop buying newer programmes.
>>>>
>>>>inmo 95% of the so-called increse in strength is purely the result of better
>>>>opening books, book learning functions, access to endgametables and tuning
>>>>against the immediate predecessor programmes.
>>>
>>>  I'm sorry but I'm not gonna argue about that, since IMO the opening books,
>>>learning functions, endgame tables etc... _are part of the engine_. So the
>>>discussion does not make sense for me.
>>>  Just one suggestion: why don't you also disabe hash tables, null move,
>>>pondering and alfa-beta to test the 'engine'? These are parts of the engine,
>>>_exactly the same_ as opening books, learning functions, etc...
>>>  I'm really very surprised about this discussion about the opening book not
>>>being part of the engine.
>>>  I suggest to let the programmers define _what is the engine_ and what are
>>>peripherals. Or do you discuss with your car's mechanic _what is part of the
>>>engine of the car_ and what is not?
>>>
>>>>i doubt one would get a better analysis of a data base from the newer programmes
>>>>
>>>>rajen
>>>
>>>  Just try it. Don't doubt, test.
>>>
>>>  José C.
>>
>>i dont quite know what you mean by all these things. the engine is purely the
>>software that can calculate the chessmoves and the opening books is an opening
>>database that a chessengine refers to when playing the first few moves of the
>>game. any chessengine can use any database and i'm playing one engine vs another
>>using the same opening database(which incidentally is separate from the engine.
>>
>>this will purely test the engine improvement and i doub that there is anything
>>significant to tlak about
>>
>>rajen
>
>  Ok, if you don't want to understand, it's your choice.
>
>  josé C.
well at least i'm trying a practical experiment.

rajen



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