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Subject: Re: What seems to be forgotten in the Fritz - Kramnik match

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 22:15:43 06/06/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 06, 2001 at 15:29:59, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 06, 2001 at 11:13:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 06, 2001 at 07:26:28, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 06, 2001 at 06:58:28, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>...is that Fritz played the Dutch open just last year, on a quad,
>>>>and it didn't win, it didn't even got second. It got _third_, and
>>>>this while several players forfeited vs it in protest.
>>>>
>>>>We're only one year of development further now, and the hardware
>>>>will be twice as fast, *no more*. Not even a ply more for Fritzie.
>>>>
>>>>The Dutch are pretty ok as far as chess is concerned, but it's
>>>>not like they have any players that are remotely as strong as
>>>>Kramnik.
>>>>
>>>>It was not in the top 2 of Dutch players, and now it is supposed
>>>>to stand a chance vs. the World Champion? Uhh, well maybe if he
>>>>gets sick or crazy or something.
>>>
>>>It is clear that Deep Fritz has no chance against Kramnik.
>>>
>>>Nobody expects Fritz to win.
>>>
>>>I guess that most people are not going to bet that Fritz is going to beat
>>>Kramnik even if they can earn 100$ for winning and lose 1$ for losing.
>>>
>>>Fritz is public and it is unfair.
>>>
>>>A secret program when Kramnik know nothing about it may have chances but noy
>>>Fritz.
>>>
>>>Deeper blue was a secret program when kasparov knew nothing about it.
>>>Deep Fritz is not close to be a secret program.
>>
>>Kasparov didn't "know nothing" about it.  DB Jr had played many exhibition
>>matches.
>
>DB Jr is not known to be something close to Deeper blue so I doubt if using Deep
>blue JR games could help kasparov.
>
>I also know that DB jr played games that were not tournament time control but
>something like active chess so I doubt if kasparov could learn much about deeper
>blue weaknesses.
>


DB Jr was identical to deep blue, just slower.  Same eval, same everything.
Do you think that you couldn't learn anything about how to beat a computer
in a standard time control game by playing blitz games with it?  I could
certainly find weaknesses...




>I remember that adams could win Deep Junior at blitz when he prepared against it
>but when he tried the same opening at 2 hours/40 moves Deep Junior played better
>and adams could get only a draw.
>
>Uri
>  Kasparov's problem was that he listened to the _wrong_ people and
>>prepared in the worst possible way, by practicing against a microcomputer
>>program.  Foolish and it showed.
>
>I do not think that it is foolish to practice against microcomputers.
>
>It is a good idea when the target of kasparov should not be only to win but to
>win when the opponent does not understand the position for a big number of
>moves.
>
>If kasparov wins against the micro computer when the micro understands 1 or 2
>moves after the mistake that it did a mistake then trying to repeat it against
>Deeper blue is a bad idea but if kasparov wins against the micro when the micro
>believes that it is better even 5 moves after the mistake then trying to repeat
>similiar ideas may be productive also against deeper blue.
>
>It is impossible to be sure when the program is not public but it can help in
>part of the cases and it is possible that it heped kasparov in game 1 and also
>in game 4.
>
>Kasparov did not win game 4 but kasparov sacrificed a pawn when the sacrifice is
>correct and I believe that kasparov missed a win in game 4.
>
>It is possible that kasaprov found a similiar idea in his preperations against
>chess programs.
>
>I remember that Genius3 was also happy with the position of Deeper blue some
>moves after the sacrifice of kasparov.
>
>I remember that I read an anlysis that suggest that kasparov missed a win in
>game 4 but unfortunately I do not remember the analysis and I am not sure if I
>saved it.
>
>Uri



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