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Subject: Re: What is:Kramnik really saying about Fritz's strength? - GM level??

Author: Mark Young

Date: 14:51:26 06/21/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 21, 2001 at 17:28:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On June 21, 2001 at 16:38:58, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On June 21, 2001 at 09:41:01, Pierre Bourget wrote:
>>
>>>From an interview at Kasparovchess site:
>>>
>>>One more serious contest is in store for you, the match with a computer. How are
>>>you preparing for this match? It?s common knowledge that, in preparing for duels
>>>with humans, you don?t rely on a computer?s help much.
>>>
>>>It?s true that I prefer to work in the good old fashion. Well, certainly I will
>>>play training games at home. According to the contract, I will obtain the
>>>printouts of the DeepFritz games in late summer.
>>>
>>>I take this match very seriously and I really believe that the computer will be
>>>a hard nut to crack. The rumors that DeepFritz is a far cry from DeepBlue are
>>>not true to life. I don?t think that DeepFritz is much weaker than DeepBlue.
>>>However, I know that the programmers have made vast headway in the past three
>>>years. Fritz?s play is getting stronger every year. At some moments the machine
>>>really acquires human features - for instance, it sacrifices material with a
>>>view to gaining the initiative. So I am not at all sure that I will be a success
>>>at this match. Of course, the world?s strongest chess players are better at
>>>evaluating positions than computers, but people can get tired and get caught in
>>>time trouble and so on. The end of the match will be the most difficult stage of
>>>all.
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"I really believe that the computer will be
>>a hard nut to crack."
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"The rumors that DeepFritz is a far cry from DeepBlue are
>>not true to life."
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"I don?t think that DeepFritz is much weaker than DeepBlue."
>
>
>Kasparov said _exactly_ the same thing _before_ the match.  After the match,
>he said "this was something totally new and unexpected."

I agree, it is always tough to take GM at their word when talking about chess
matches. Even when the opponent is not human.

>
>Which statement was correct?  foresight or hindsight?

I agree 100%

>
>
>
>
>>
>>Kramnik:
>>"At some moments the machine
>>really acquires human features - for instance, it sacrifices material with a
>>view to gaining the initiative. So I am not at all sure that I will be a success
>>at this match"
>>
>>The questions that crosses my mind when reading Kramnik?s statements:
>>
>>I.	Is this hype for the upcoming match?
>
>It is fear of looking foolish.  IE should he lose to Fritz, he _has_ to
>say something to make it look no worse than Kasparov losing to Deep Blue.
>He couldn't _possibly_ say "deep fritz is nowhere near deep blue" and then,
>should the unthinkable happen and he gets blasted, have to face the public
>after losing to something much worse than DB."

My thoughts exactly.


>
>
>
>
>>II.	Does GM Kramnik really think he may not beat Fritz?
>>III.	How strong does GM Kramnik think Deep Blue was?
>
>
>I'd bet he has _no_ idea, that he hasn't talked to anyone that really knows
>anything about deep blue at all.  He is either talking to the ChessBase guys
>(the same ones that told Kasparov that if he practiced against Fritz he would
>be well-prepared to play DB2) or talking to people that simply don't know.
>
>Either is not a big deal since he doesn't have to play deep blue, which means
>that no matter what he says about DB, it won't be confirmed or disproven.

Are you saying a Grandmaster can tell nothing about a programs strength, even
when he can study the games? Are you saying Kramnik must be a chess programmer
or a chess program expert to understad how strong computers play?

I don't understand.

>
>
>
>>IV.	Is GM Kramnik saying Fritz is competitive at the Elite GM level?
>>V.	Is GM Kramnik saying Fritz is a GM Level program?
>>VI.	Are we to take GM Kramnik statements as true in his own mind?
>
>When the coach of the #1 college team in the nation prepares to play the #30
>team, what does he say?  "I expect we will blow them out without working up a
>sweat?"  or "I expect this to be a really tough game.  They are going to be
>motivated by our #1 rating, and they have some really superb players on their
>offense and defense.  We will be hard-pressed to win this game and probably
>the team that gets the most lucky breaks will come away with the victory."
>
>Do you think the coach would ever say anything else?  IE provide "locker room"
>incentives for the opposing coaches to use?  In that light, how would you take
>Kramnik's comments?

That is the Question, are we to take GM Kramnik at his word. I don't know GM
Kramnik, so I can not make that judgement.





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