Author: Graham Laight
Date: 06:30:37 06/25/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 25, 2001 at 07:51:14, Mark Young wrote: >On June 25, 2001 at 07:00:56, Graham Laight wrote: > >>On June 25, 2001 at 06:37:19, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On June 25, 2001 at 05:10:46, Graham Laight wrote: >>> >>>>If Eduard Nemeth can beat Deep Fritz in a G/10, what chance does Fritzy have >>>>against Kramnik at full time control - even with extra processors? >>>> >>>>Answer - not a lot. >>> >>>1)Deep Fritz can play better at long time control and avoid mistakes that it >>>does at blitz. >>> >>>I remember that adams also believed in the same theory against Junior and chose >>>an opening when he beated Junior at blitz. >>> >>>Unfortunately Deep Junior played better at tournament time control played better >>>so adams could not achieve more than a draw. >>> >>>2)More time should help the computer more than the humans if the programmers are >>>good enough because computer never get tired when humans get tired. >> >> >>This is a new experience for me. It is the first time I've read that computers >>will do better at tournament time controls than fast time controls. >> >>That people who know chess computing can credibly say this represents a PARADIGM >>SHIFT as far as I'm concerned. > >It was a flawed premise to begin with that computers would not improve with >longer thinking times. It was always pointed out the human players would make >less mistakes (tactically) with longer think times, but they overlooked that >programs also improves greatly positionally and tactically as well over shorter >thinking times. > >You cannot assume the computers will make the same positional and tactical >mistakes when playing short verses long time controls. > >It is always risky to have stereotypical views of understanding. I think that people who've been around a long time might disagree with this. The first victory by a computer against a GM was at G5 time control. The GM famously said, "Bloody iron monster" when he realised that he'd made the tactical mistake that would cost him the game. If my memory serves me correctly, that was in the late 1960s. I don't think that any computers beat GMs at tournament time controls until the 1990s. They simply weren't good enough. -g >> >>-g >> >> >>>3)The Deep Fritz that plays against kramnik is not the same program >>>that played against Nemeth but a better program. >>> >>>Kramnik is not going to have the right to play against it a lot of games to find >>>weaknesses and is only going to get printout of games of this program based on >>>interview with him. >>> >>>I expect kramnik to win the match but the games of nemeth prove nothing because >>>these games are not against the same Fritz that plays kramnik. >>> >>>A surprise is possible and maybe the programmer of Fritz is going to surprise us >>>by a significant improvement. >>>The surprise that I think about is sound pruning algorithm that is going to do >>>the program 100 times faster at tournament time control. >>> >>>Sound pruning algorithm means that the program always get the same main line at >>>the same depth like the previous program but need less nodes and less time to do >>>it. >>> >>>Uri
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