Author: Mark Young
Date: 03:38:26 06/26/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 26, 2001 at 06:31:33, Martin Schubert wrote: >On June 26, 2001 at 06:15:02, Mark Young wrote: > >>On June 26, 2001 at 06:08:34, Martin Schubert wrote: >> >>>On June 26, 2001 at 06:02:34, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:58:52, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:39:52, Mark Young wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:21:27, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:15:56, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 05:06:36, Martin Schubert wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 04:53:05, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>ChessTiger has now produced 2 wins in a row and a draw against strong titled IM >>>>>>>>>>players. It must be noted ChessTiger is doing this on hardware that is not >>>>>>>>>>considered ultra fast PIII 866 256 MB Ram. Most people own hardware this good or >>>>>>>>>>better. This is not a chess program running on thousands of dollars with of >>>>>>>>>>equipment with 8 CPUs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>If ChessTiger continues playing as well as it is, the 2100 elo crowd or the No >>>>>>>>>>way computers are GM crowd will have to come up with someway to explain this >>>>>>>>>>performance. As I doubt it will change anyone’s mind even if ChessTiger wins >>>>>>>>>>this tournament. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The performance is easy to explain. Like in the tournaments last year with the >>>>>>>>>participation of Fritz and Junior a lot of players don't know how to play >>>>>>>>>against computers. There are some games which could be played by players with >>>>>>>>>rating <2000 as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I don’t think this that arguments passes the laugh test, most players’ trainee >>>>>>>>with some kind of computer aid, chess bases, programs etc. They have too, to >>>>>>>>compete in today’s chess tournaments. Programs have been around for many years, >>>>>>>>and I would doubt this is any players first time seeing a chess computer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Playing against computers and playing against humans are two different >>>>>>>disciplines. Maybe like 100meter and 400meter hurdles. If you practise mainly >>>>>>>for one discipline you're not that good in the other one. >>>>>>>Maybe you can take a look at Eduard Nemeth's games. He has no problem beating >>>>>>>all of the programs. His rating is maybe 2100. After reading his articles I >>>>>>>could beat Shredder 5 without much effort (my rating about 1900). >>>>>>>Just look about the game Tiger played in round 3. You want to tell me that his >>>>>>>opposite played like 2400? Like an IM? I think already the opening was a >>>>>>>disaster. >>>>>> >>>>>>Give us some analysis since you have looked at the game to back up your >>>>>>argument. >>>>>> >>>>>>I will take that challenge that you can beat a top chess program. And we will >>>>>>make it a short 10 game match at blitz time controls or any time controls you >>>>>>want. I have many years playing programs online, and you will find my opening >>>>>>book does not have many holes in it like 2 Na3. So you will need to outplay it, >>>>>>in the middle and endgame to win. >>>>> >>>>>I didn't say that I'm experienced enough to beat a program in match. But it's a >>>>>matter of training. I'm not interested in that. >>>>>But ask Eduard Nemeth. I'm sure he can beat a top chess program in a 10 game >>>>>match. >>>> >>>>Sorry I just took you at your word: >>>> >>>>"After reading his articles I >>>>could beat Shredder 5 without much effort (my rating about 1900)." >>> >>>Did I say that I can beat it every time? Did I say I can beat it with black? >>>But I don't think I can beat an IM or GM even one time. >> >>And that is my exact point, it is easy to exploit the computer when you can >>control what the computer plays, how it plays etc. Not exactly tournament >>conditions is it!? >> >No, not exactly tournament conditions. >But to repeat it again. You have to play different against computers than >against humans. Do you agree? It can only help, if you can do it. >You have to keep positions closed. That's not easy. correct, some people think that doing this is a walk in the park. But you can practise how to >play against computers. But that needs time. And the IM's and GM'S don't do this How do you know this? This is just a guess. >because they earn money for playing humans. So of course they're not that >experienced in playing computers than in playing humans. We don't know how much experiece the players have, do you know for sure?? >If they practised like Eduard does they would win much more. But they don't. Of >course they don't. You are saying this as fact, you may be right or just wrong. > >>BTW: Players with 1900 ratings and lower have beaten and drawn GMs and IMs >>before. >> >>>> >>>>BTW Where is the analysis to back up your aguments about how poor the IM played! >>> >>>Black has in this kind of positions 3 main goals: playing b5, d5 and f5. Agree? >>>Without problems he could play b5 and f5. White didn't achieve anything. So IMO >>>there must be something wrong. Nf3 doesn't fit in this position, it belongs to >>>e2.
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