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Subject: Re: Mr. Morsch viewpoint on the differences between Deep Blue and Deep Fritz

Author: Wayne Lowrance

Date: 07:45:41 08/01/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 01, 2001 at 10:37:39, Wayne Lowrance wrote:

>On August 01, 2001 at 03:54:23, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On August 01, 2001 at 02:06:06, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On August 01, 2001 at 02:01:45, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 01, 2001 at 01:44:33, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 01, 2001 at 01:40:03, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 31, 2001 at 18:49:37, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 31, 2001 at 18:36:53, Otello Gnaramori wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>>Franz Morsch saying the main difference between this version of Fritz compared
>>>>>>>>to its predecessors did not lie so much in greater chess knowledge but more due
>>>>>>>>to the machines newfound ability to deal with anti-computer chess strategy, and
>>>>>>>>to learn from its mistakes. He also said that he believed that this incarnation
>>>>>>>>of Fritz is every bit as strong as the Deep Blue II that defeated Kasparov and
>>>>>>>>has far greater "chess knowledge".
>>>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For a machine with many thousands of tunable chess parameters, carefully
>>>>>>>adjusted by teams of programmers and GM's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>carefully adjusted by programmers and GM's?
>>>>>>I doubt it.
>>>>>
>>>>>The programmers first used a gradient method, which was based upon thousands of
>>>>>GM games.  Then, individual parameters were hand-tuned by the GM's advice.
>>>>
>>>>I doubt if using GM's games to adjust the evaluation is a good idea.
>>>>I also doubt if GM's advise for parameters is a good idea because I believe that
>>>>the GM's do not think in the numbers of computers in games.
>>>>
>>>>The GM's have not time to calculate evaluation in the computer way and I do not
>>>>think the advantage of GM's against computer is because of a better static
>>>>evaluation.
>>>>
>>>>The advantage of humans against computers is their ability to think and change
>>>>their evaluation during the game and the ability to plan that is not about
>>>>evaluation.
>>>
>>>I might be wrong, but I rather suspect that all of the best computer chess
>>>programs have advice incorporated from GM's.  Perhaps some of it is indirect
>>>(e.g. someone advised Robert Hyatt, someone looked at Hyatt's code).
>>
>>I suspect that it is only a small part of the work about chess programs.
>>The biggest part is testing changes and I guess that it is done by games or test
>>positions and not by GM's.
>>
>>Building the right test positions may be also a lot of work because good
>>test positions should be taken from games when in part of the cases there is no
>>tactics and the problem is to find a good positional move.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I hope I am quoting Christophe correct. He posted that he does not use game  to
>evaluate results. He has spent time to write testing code (part or all of which
>is embedded in his development chess program to evaluate changes. Sounds like
>the correct way to go if you have confidence in the evaluation code.
>Wayne

The evaluation of the testing code seems easy.
a) set up a board position of the typcal problem.
b) Nest the testing code without changing the chess playing program. It must not
affect the before-after eval.
c) Make the changes thought to improved the program.
d) Check the eval and the board to observe the change in play if any.

To simplistic Christopohe ?
Wayne




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