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Subject: Re: Deep Blue

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 05:46:18 08/02/01

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On August 02, 2001 at 04:27:01, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On August 02, 2001 at 03:54:39, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On August 02, 2001 at 03:44:01, Janosch Zwerensky wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I read some time ago that Deep Blue wasn't using heuristic game tree pruning
>>>methods (like, for example, the null-move technique).
>>>Since null-move was known when DB was around, can anyone here tell why the DB
>>>team decided not to use it (or wasn't able to do so)?
>>
>>Safety.
>>But don't imagine brute force mini-max.  Not like that at all.  As a matter of a
>>fact, beyond 30 seconds, wonderful things might happen.
>
>When I started doing computer chess there were people searching (gasp!) nine
>plies, and some of these people were talking about how the tree is way different
>when you search that deep.  There was talk of tactical sufficiency and lots of
>other craziness.
>
>Now that we can do nine-ply searches in blitz games, a lot of that talk drops by
>the wayside.
>
>I've always wondered about DT/DB and null move.  It may be that they had
>everyone so incredibly supersetted that they didn't need to mess with stuff like
>this, but I'd think it was pretty incredible if they were still not using null
>move.
>
>Null move is great, and as far as I can tell it works at any tree depth.
>
>This is one of the reasons I don't just keel over and die when Bob argues that
>they are so bloody fast, and therefore they must be godlike.  Yes, they are
>fast, but they don't use the same kind of search.  Maybe 98% of that tree is
>crap, because against a human or a micro program running on a 286, it makes
>sense to not make pruning mistakes rather than search an extra five plies (all
>numbers approximate and probably way off).  I don't know.  There are ways to
>find out, but they involve being able to test the thing.
>
>bruce


Just remember, not _everybody_ today is using null-move.  Yet their programs
are still incredibly strong.



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