Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:08:25 08/02/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 02, 2001 at 11:40:09, Mike Castañuela wrote: >On August 02, 2001 at 00:53:59, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On August 01, 2001 at 13:07:19, Mike Castañuela wrote: >> >>>On August 01, 2001 at 09:42:58, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On August 01, 2001 at 05:03:06, Graham Laight wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 31, 2001 at 22:37:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 31, 2001 at 18:36:53, Otello Gnaramori wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>><snip> >>>>>>>Franz Morsch saying the main difference between this version of Fritz compared >>>>>>>to its predecessors did not lie so much in greater chess knowledge but more due >>>>>>>to the machines newfound ability to deal with anti-computer chess strategy, and >>>>>>>to learn from its mistakes. He also said that he believed that this incarnation >>>>>>>of Fritz is every bit as strong as the Deep Blue II that defeated Kasparov and >>>>>>>has far greater "chess knowledge". >>>>>>><snip> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Good to say that...:) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regards. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>If that is a direct quote from Frans, my respect for him just took a _huge_ >>>>>>nose-dive. The quote is simply nonsense. >>>>> >>>>>Presumably, the lost respect will be restored if Fritz wins. :) >>>>> >>>>>-g >>>> >>>> >>>>Nope. Fritz could win 6-0 and that statement would _still_ be ridiculous to >>>>make by someone that knows something about computer chess. >>> >>> >>>Why? >>>Prof. Hyatt, you mean that if X Program (PC), not matter with >>>what score its defeats to the current human World champion, then >>>DBII has been the Best program forever? >>>The results do not count, beyond subjectivas discussions? >> >> >>Simple test: >> >>I build a car, using a 502 CI motor, producing about 2500 horsepower at the >>rear wheels. >> >>You build a car, using whatever you want, producing about 250 horsepower at >>the rear wheels. >> >>We race. Who wins? >> >>I _might_ blow a rear end.... snap an axle... drop the tranny on the track... >>break a crank... throw a rod... drop a valve... I would lose. But if we >>race a race later that year, and you _must_ best your life on the outcome, who >>are you going to bet on? _really_??? >> >>I _know_ that in the 1/4 mile drags, 2500 horses is going to beat 250 horses >>every time unless something odd happens. >> >>And in the case of deep blue, it is 25,000 horses vs DF's 250 horsepower. So >>which is really stronger? Even if DF does beat another car in a race? Which >>one would you _really_ bet on??? >> >>Results count. But so does actual technical knowledge about the combatants. >>In this case, the technical details overwhelm any single race result. Give >>me that 25,000 horsepower any time. > >Thanks. > >But there are something not considered in your map: > >The 'overall horsepower' takes into account the chess knowledge >embedded in the system, which, in PC programs, there several >presumptions (e.g. results against humans) that it is far better >comparatively than DBII, compensing (in part) the deficit in >'brute horsepower' (e.g. processors speed). I say in part, because >until now no PC program has won to the current World champion. > DB played lots of exhibition matches around the world prior to the Kasparov matches. I saw one against Robert Byrne, and another against a GM I can't recall. It didn't lose a match. And this was Deep Blue Junior. Not the full-blown thing used against Kasparov. It was a formidable opponent. DB Jr had an outstanding record against GM players in exhibitions. DB2 was way faster and smarter. Extrapolation makes me cringe. >But if Fritz wins, by example, with at least the same margin >than DBII won to Kasparov (3.5-2.5), then my hypothesis of the >'overal horsepower (strength with chess knowledge)' more likely >it must be certain. In the match vs DB, kasparov didn't try to draw each game, and wait for a mistake. Kasparov played to win whenever possible. He sacrificed pawns, he played for keeps. If Kramnik plays the same way, then I agree, the match will show a lot. If kramnik plays for draws, and manages to lose one game, I won't consider that anything like the DB vs Kasparov match. Those were fighting games. Not draws waiting for mistakes. Let's first see how the match is played, before drawing conclusions on a speculation on the final result... > >And if Kramnik is at least at 90-100% of his strength >at the time of the match, there will be no excuses, >nor something odd have happened, and, therefore, Fritz (or whatever) >will be better. If Fritz beats Kramnik, then it will be very very strong. I don't believe it will have a chance, but then neither did I believe DB would beat Kasparov. So take my opinion with a grain of salt and wait for the real results.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.