Author: Otello Gnaramori
Date: 11:59:15 08/05/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 05, 2001 at 09:16:46, Pekka Karjalainen wrote: >On August 05, 2001 at 08:28:40, Otello Gnaramori wrote: > >[I wrote this:] >>>>great equalizer in a sense, especially if it is affordable by a man on the >>>>street. Even if you are a GM, is it such a big deal anymore if a top of the >>>>line PC can be a GM too? (FWIW, yes, I think it still will be. What do you >>>>think?) >>> >>>Yes , I think that "equalizing" component is also involved, and probably there >>>is also the desire to debunk chess as an "intelligent" game since also stupid >>>machines can play it at those high levels : a good excuse for the game patzers >>>(me too). > > I was thinking along these lines: > > Becoming a GM requires talent and great effort. It is not an achievement for >a human that is not going to be rendered worthless by the fact that computers >may be capable of it too. > > Whether it is a worthwhile goal or a wise career choice is a different issue. >For some people it is, considering the money involved in the top-level matches. >I can only wish I could get 1M$ for anything I can do better than a computer :-) >:-) > >> >>I realize I didn't answer to your main question. I try to answer with some >>quotes from Binet and Tarrasch since I think that to play chess at highest >>levels requires especially a sort of mnemonic virtuosity, it is also called >>"eidetics memory" : >> >>Alfred Binet says of mnemonic virtuosity in blindfold chess, quoting Tarrasch >>"some part of every chess game is played blindfold, any combination of five >>moves is played in one's head." also Tarrasch "the sight of the chessboard >>frequently destroys one's calculations". > > This is interesting. Perhaps a more appropriate topic for the CTF forum. I'm >sorry to say that I cannot really follow-up on this conversation for now, so >I'll have to let the opportunity to pass. > >> >>I can give you a recent example of a young chess prodigy, Pavel Ponkratov , 13 >>years old , that has recently won a blindfold simul against 8 players. >>The link to follow is : >> >>http://www.bielchessfestival.ch/cgi-local/turnier.pl?kat=blind_simultan&sprache=1 >> >>I think that to be able to play a "blindfold game" at that level is the most >>relevant talent in chess and the prerequisite to become a GM. > > Thanks for the URL. These talented prodigies are interesting and impressive. >So is Korchnoi at 70, too! > >I wonder whether my inability to play blindfold (well, I think I could mate with >K+R against king blindfold or something similarly easy) is because I just >haven't got what it takes to be a GM, or could I possibly learn to do it. And >would that help me become a better chess player? > If we take a significative sample of the top chess players we can find out that almost all of them are definitively very skilled in this difficult discipline. Just to give a concrete reference, in the recent Amber Blindfold Tournament held in Monaco the players were: Viswanathan Anand, Vassily Ivanchuk, Vladimir Kramnik, Anatoly Karpov, Peter Leko, Jeroen Piket, Alexei Shirov, Veselin Topalov, Loek van Wely, Boris Gelfand, Zoltan Almasi, Ljubomir Ljubojevic. > In other words, is blindfold play an ability that one just picks up after >improving at chess to a certain level, or is it something you can practice and >consequently get at least a little better at chess. I think that if you are methodically trained to do that from an early age it is very probable a success, like in Polgar Sisters "experiment" made to refute the "inborn genius". We can observe though that in many cases there is no special training administered , in that case we have an innate ability or prodigy , like in George Koltanowski's case. > > There is a lot we just don't know about the human brain, and studying how >people learn chess can help with that too. I would like to ask, where did you >get that Binet quote? > > Pekka The complete reference is :Binet, A. (1966). Mnemonic virtuosity: a study of chess players. Genetic Psychology Monographs 74:127-162. (Translated fom the Revue des Deux Mondes (1893) 117: 826 - 859.) In the following address you can found other interesting links : http://cognet.mit.edu/MITECS/Entry/gobet Regards.
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