Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:29:28 08/30/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 30, 2001 at 16:59:05, Theo van der Storm wrote: >On August 29, 2001 at 23:32:12, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On August 29, 2001 at 18:42:32, Theo van der Storm wrote: >> >>>On August 29, 2001 at 17:30:50, Dann Corbit wrote: >>> >>>>On August 29, 2001 at 16:41:54, Theo van der Storm wrote: >>>>>On August 29, 2001 at 05:37:17, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >>>... >>>>Why do the professional programs have to pay so much? >>>>What are the expenses involved that require such large fees? >>> >>>My sympathy is more with the amateurs. >>>For a poor student $100 is a lot of money. >>> >>>>I would think that a sponsoring university could be found that would not charge >>>>thousands of dollars for the use of the fascilities. >>> >>>Although I was NOT involved in the Maastricht organisation, >>>I happen to know, that many universities have established a kind of >>>self-supporting facilities department in order to cut over-all costs. >>>Other departments, among which the sponsor, simply have to pay. >>>Usually these are budgeted internal cost, except for special events... >>> >>>Theo van der Storm > >>That is the thing I don't understand. I competed in ACM events from 1976 to >>the last one held. We _never_ charged an entry fee. I played in many WCCC >>events. We _never_ charged an entry fee. > >I was a participant 1981-1985 in the Dutch Computer-Chess championships. >Since around 1996 I organised the event as an Open Dutch championship. >Other CSVN boardmembers helped during the event, of course. >We _never_ charged an entry fee, although membership (<$25) was and is required. WMCCC events have required this. (ICCA membership, which is not unreasonable). ACM events never did. Nor did the WCCC events I attended personally, the last being 1989 I believe. > >Firstly it was always organised as a very low budget event. >Secondly it was and is budgetted from the CSVN (Dutch Computer-chess >association) own funds. >Maybe the ICCA could cut some cost too. >However they have only half the number of members of the CSVN, >so that's a small base for a big event. > I believe that both ICCA and FIDE had a case of "big eyes" when they started thinking about the money they could potentially make from the commercial computer chess companies. But somewhere along the way, the "little guys" were forgotten about it seems. The ACM always paid for the computer chess tournaments completely. Including phone lines and long-distance calls to our big iron machines. All the participants had to do was to get to the event and supply their own food and a place to stay. That was non-trivial, without factoring in entry fees that vary depending on the local weather forecast, etc... >>The ICCA decided to charge entry >>fees for the WMCCC events as they were essentially all "professional" in the >>80's. And it was a way to engorge the ICCA treasury from companies that would >>use the WMCCC results to augment their sales. All quite reasonable. But now >>the WMCCC event has effectively replaced the old ACM events, where everybody >>comes. And the entry fee has outlived its usefulness. It stifles the >>competition. As does the rather ridiculous issue of traveling to Europe every >>year since that is the only place these things seem to be held, for the most >>part. >> >>The ACM did it the right way, with the event bouncing all over the US, so that >>everyone had a chance to make a cheap trip at least every other year. We need >>to encourage new people to join in the fun, not make it impossible for them to >>do so unless they own their own airline. > >I agree the WMCCC should alternate EUR-US like the WCCC >for the reasons you mention, but the problem is finding sponsors >who like that idea. > >Theo van der Storm
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