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Subject: Re: Hashtables: is larger always better?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:48:48 09/27/01

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On September 27, 2001 at 06:07:35, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On September 26, 2001 at 10:06:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 26, 2001 at 06:52:32, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On September 25, 2001 at 23:57:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 25, 2001 at 11:33:51, Antonio Dieguez wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>Note that I don't sign on to the theory that more ram increases the probability
>>>>>>of a collision.
>>>>>
>>>>>Try it yourself, then. With different hashtable sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>>this is what I got in the initial position, with 16 bits total. With replacing
>>>>>scheme always replace.
>>>>>
>>>>>with 128 entries:
>>>>>[9] 978059 nodes, illegal moves=2416
>>>>>
>>>>>with 256:
>>>>>[9] 909888 nodes, illegal moves=3113
>>>>>
>>>>>512:
>>>>>[9] 944380 nodes, illegal moves=5450
>>>>>
>>>>>1024:
>>>>>[9] 847469 nodes, illegal moves=9062
>>>>>
>>>>>2048:
>>>>>[9] 915317 nodes, illegal moves=15875
>>>>>
>>>>>4096:
>>>>>[9] 1183890 nodes, illegal moves=38123
>>>>>
>>>>>I think it will be obviously the same trying others positions too.
>>>
>>>What a beautiful experiment Antonio;)
>>>
>>>>But what if you use a 64 bit key, with absolutely no hope of searching
>>>>1/4,000,000,000th of that search space?  How many collisions then?  And
>>>>if you increase the hash size, how many collisions then?
>>>
>>>He would get the same result: double hash -> double number of collisions.
>>>Of couse the actual count would be zero unless it ran for a very long time.
>>>
>>
>>
>>We are getting very near to the old "Chess is O(1) complexity because the size
>>of the tree is definitely 'finite' in nature."
>>
>>Of course that overlooks the problem that the size is so large that it is not
>>going to be searched before the sun turns into a red giant.  Same with this
>>problem.  We are not going to be searching 16,000,000,000,000,000,000 nodes
>>any time in the forseeable future.  And until we get to an appreciable fraction
>>of that search space, you can change the hash table size all you want and it is
>>going to have zero influence on the collision rate.
>>
>>Which has been my point all along.  Suggesting that 4 gigs of hash is worse than
>>2 gigs because it will cause more collisions is an accurate statement, but it
>>is missing one important detail.  The 2 gig hash table will have _zero_
>>collisions.  So of course the 4 gig table will have 2*zero collisions as well.
>>You say it will double.  I say it will be unchanged.  Thanks to that "zero" we
>>are both correct here...
>
>Hmmm...
>If Newton said to Einstein:
>"Who cares about Lorentz effects, we never travel that fast anyway".
>What should Einstein reply? ;)
>
>Cheers mate,
>-S.

"for today, it isn't a problem.  For the next few centuries, it isn't a problem.
It _will_ be a problem one day.  But if you are asking me 'do I have to worry
about it?' the answer is 'no'."

:)



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