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Subject: Re: New crap statement ? Perpetuum mobile

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 15:42:17 10/04/01

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On October 04, 2001 at 14:54:01, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On October 04, 2001 at 06:46:48, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On October 04, 2001 at 04:56:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>The difference is that the other side(I and Bruce) do not say that they know
>>>that there is a super linear improvement but that we cannot say that it is
>>>impossible with the known algorithm of today.
>>>
>>>I said that the only way is to investigate the problem by test positions in
>>>order to see if programs can get a super linear improvement from 2 processors.
>>
>>But that is not the only way, you can also use logic.
>>This is like explaning to an inventor why he can't make a perpetuum mobile
>>machine. If he doesn't understand the laws of physics, does not know of energy
>>conservation, then he will keep arguing till the day he die, that "we can not
>>know for certain until we have tried everything".
>>
>>We _do_ know, there is proof and Bob has outlined it several times, but if you
>>won't listen or understand, then we have a communication problem.
>>
>>-S.
>
>A perpetual motion machine is impossible.  A gasoline engine is not impossible.
>If you assert that a gasoline engine can exist, and someone else accuses you of
>trying to invent a perpetual motion machine, you can point out how the two
>differ, and you can describe how the engine can work in practice, but if they
>keep telling you that you are violating the laws of physics, what can you do?
>
>How would you like it if when I got into a sticky point with one of my
>arguments, I wrote a big long thing declaring that you don't exist and could
>therefore be ignored.
>
>Algorithm A is a single-processor algorithm designed to operate in domain D.
>Algorithm B is a dual-processor algorithm derived from A, and applied to domain
>D.
>
>There is nothing that would preclude B from being more than twice as fast as A.
>A may not be the most optimal algorithm.  Adding parallelism in order to create
>B may have changed the algorithm significantly.  The two "halves" of B may
>interact profitably.  Domain D may not be well enough understood.
>
>None of this results in any risk of the planet splitting open or Isaac Newton
>being refuted.
>
>bruce

Okay, I've said this elsewhere, but here's a good place to clear things up.

Bob and I are _not_ arguing that B cannot be super-linearly faster than A.

Bob and I are arguing that B's existance proves the existance of Algorithm C, a
sequential algorithm that B will not be super-linearly faster than.  If domain D
is not well-enough understood, then it may be necessary to implement C as a
sequential simulation of B.

Bob and I are furthermore also stating that since we know that C exists and that
we can implement C, it is not appropriate to report data comparing only A and B.

Dave



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