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Subject: Re: Turning null-move off

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:25:47 10/08/01

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On October 08, 2001 at 09:52:05, Bernhard Bauer wrote:

>On October 08, 2001 at 09:31:57, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 08, 2001 at 07:29:04, Bernhard Bauer wrote:
>>
>>>On October 07, 2001 at 21:39:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>2.  You can tone down (or even disable) the null-move search.  You can
>>>>try sel=2/3 (the default) then sel=2/2, sel=1/1, and finally sel=0/0 which
>>>>will turn null-move off.  This will further reduce the search depth and overall
>>>>strength.
>>>>
>>>
>>>From my experience sel=0/0 doesn't turn null-move completely off.
>>>Here an example with sel=0/0
>>>
>>>[D]4B/8/6N/5p/1r4p/6pk/7b/4K2Q w - -
>>>
>>>
>>>        (4)    6->   1.90  -0.44   1. Bc6 Rb1+ 2. Ke2 Rxh1 3. Nf4+ Kh4
>>>                                   4. Bxh1 Kg5 5. Ke3
>>>        (3)    7     1.96  -0.22   1. Bc6 Rb1+ 2. Ke2 Rxh1 3. Nf4+ Kh4
>>>                                   4. Bxh1 Bg1 5. Bg2 Bd4
>>>               7     2.75     ++   1. Kd2!!
>>>        (2)    7     3.79   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3
>>>        (2)    7->   6.29   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3
>>>               8     8.14   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3
>>>        (2)    8->  14.57   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3
>>>               9    20.50   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3 10. Nf4
>>>        (2)    9->  42.50   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3 10. Nf4
>>>              10     1:05   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3 10. Nf4 Bxf4
>>>        (2)   10->   2:22   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3 10. Nf4 Bxf4
>>>              11     3:35   0.00   1. Kd2 g2 2. Qe1 g1=Q 3. Qh4+ Kg2 4.
>>>                                   Bc6+ Re4 5. Bxe4+ fxe4 6. Qxg4+ Kh1
>>>                                   7. Qxe4+ Qg2+ 8. Ke3 Qxe4+ 9. Kxe4
>>>                                   Bg3 10. Nf4 Bxf4 11. Kxf4 Kh2
>>>             time=5:00  cpu=201%  mat=4  n=142525014  fh=89%  nps=474k
>>>             ext-> chk=10823921 cap=287226 pp=207595 1rep=668532 mate=112510
>>>             predicted=0  nodes=142525014  evals=28834988
>>>             endgame tablebase-> probes done=0  successful=0
>>>             hashing-> trans/ref=47%  pawn=99%  used=99%
>>>             SMP->  split=1018  stop=90  data=7/32  cpu=10:05  elap=5:00
>>>
>>>
>>>Kind regards
>>>Bernhard
>>
>>I am not sure if the problem here is null move pruning.
>>
>>The problem may be that programs need to know that there is a chance to win in
>>KN vs something(otherwise they may evaluate it as not more than a draw and stop
>>to search)
>>
>>There are programs without this knowledge so they cannot see that
>>1.Bc6 Rb1+ 2.Ke2 Rxh1 3.Bg2+ is leading to a forced mate.
>>
>>Deep Fritz with the default parameters(null move pruning) has no problem to find
>>the win because it has this knowledge that king and knight can mate.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I'm shure.
>Because with
>#define DO_NULL 0
>#define NO_NULL 1
>Crafty has no problems to find the solution.
>It's a problem in search.c. A bug.
>Kind regards


There is no reference to "DO_NULL_ anywhere in the source that I can
find... Is this a current version or a very old one???






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