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Subject: Re: example for stupid/weak Fritz5, pgn-game

Author: Thorsten Czub

Date: 09:18:20 05/29/98

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On May 29, 1998 at 10:42:34, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>I have no trouble believing that Fritz 5 does play badly every now and
>then. All programs do as we all have seen a zillion times. For example,
>take the Kramnik-Shirov position posted in another thread. All programs
>play 30.Ng5, a horrible move that loses the game. You can always wonder
>about 2500+ players playing so idiotically. Nevertheless, on average
>they play much better and score very well, thank you.
>
>So, what's your point? That F5 plays bad moves now and then? Big news...
>:)
>
>Enrique

Dear Mr. Enrique Irazoqui. I was asked to give some examples of WEAK
play of fritz. I have given an example.
It is - an example. Not more. not less.
1. I understand that you are not interested in games.
2. You are interested in NUMBERS.
3. I am in no way interested in numbers.
4. When I want to play chess and my opponent comes out with telling me
numbers, i complain to the referree.

My point is exactly what you said above, that f5 plays bad moves NOW and
THEN.
If this is no big news for you - i am sure it isn't - than be happy.
I don't like programs to play those kind of moves/games.

If you KNOW that fritz5 plays those moves, I wonder why you believe that
THIS IS NO BIG news.

But - as I said - talking with you (Enrique and Moritz) about chess or
computerchess is senseless. You are only interested in counting
Megabytes and numbers and make charts with statistics and give anything
a number.
This has nothing to do with my way of computerchess. I am NOT trying to
find out which program is the fastest one in finding a key move in a
certain forced position. Thats maybe YOUR understanding of
computerchess. But not mine. These test-suites and the SOLVER programs
finding these key-moves do mainly build up how fast their search is. And
- since this is their only strength, these programs fail in other
situations, where it comes NOT to solve the position in the fastest way,
since there is no definite key-move to find, as we have seen in paris
where crafty, ferret, dark thought, fritz and others were UNABLE to FIND
the right moves in the fastest way, since there were no moves to find...

Of course in the BLITZ tournament programs like Ferret HAVE advantages.
When I design a program be fast, it will dominate in a blitz-tournament.
I mean - it is obvious. Fast moves it the thing i designed it for.

So what does all this: interesting king-position stuff here measure, if
you don't measure if the program is able to direct into such a position,
but instad, you measure how fast it finds the key-move. This has nothing
to do with each other.

I have not seen that Dark Thought - although computing much faster,
although coming much plies deeper, although having a very fast hardware,
although using all kinds of databases in the endgame, was able to win
against CSTal.
In the end the pure FAST/more depths/more NPS race was reduced to the
question: does CSTal know that the opponent king has to be cut off at
the edge of the board. Obviously CSTal did know about this
beginner/novice-rule, meanwhile Dark Thought did NOT know about this
rule. So the main-lines showed. And
although it was FASTER, deeper and better in tactics, it was unable to
come with the king out of the a-file because tals-rook was on the
b-file.

Of course you are not interested in these silly chess-stuff. You count
numbers, NPS, Megabyte of Ram, results, make your statistics. Why should
chess intereste you, you have fast computers. Thats enough. You have
kyro-technicians. Thats enough.

Thats not enough.
And that is what my examples wanted to show.
But talking with people not interested in games or chess is senseless.
So I should better leave this club and talk with people INTERESTED in
chess instead of interested in statistics.




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