Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:30:59 10/30/01
Go up one level in this thread
On October 30, 2001 at 14:49:42, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 30, 2001 at 13:32:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 30, 2001 at 07:24:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>46:04 0 0 327781499 (111597415) 14 -0.078 Bh5-g6 Nf1-d2 Qb6-c7 a3-a4 Kg8-h7 Ne3- >>>c4 Nd7-b6 Nc4xa5 Bc5-b4 c2-c3 Bb4xa5 b3-b4 Nb6-d7 b4xa5 Nd7-c5 h3-h4 >>> >>>Diep doesn't consider the bad move g5-g4. >>> >> >> >> >> >>Diep also doesn't _understand_ the position. It thinks black is worse by >>a very tiny bit. (-.078). That is a strong _understatement_ here. Black is >>nearly losing. > >It is nor clear and the only way to test it is by games. >Can you win diep in a correspondence game after Diep's move Bg6? I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say. I'd be willing to try. But which side would you rather play there, white or black? And why? >> >>> >>>For those who tactical mistakes that's definitely true. For GMs that's not >>>exactly true though. They got their GM because they can play a perfect game! >>> >> >> >> >>I have _never_ seen a GM play a "perfect game"... >> >> >>>>ChessMaster 8000 output: >>>> >>>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>>0:00 1/3 -0.04 2059 1...Bd4 2. Nd2 Bg6 >>>>0:00 2/6 0.02 42104 1...Bd4 2. Nd2 Bg6 3. c3 Bc5 4. >>>> Qc2 Nf8 >>>>0:01 3/7 0.16 124547 1...Bd4 2. Nd2 Bg6 3. c3 Bc5 4. >>>> Qc2 Nf8 5. Ndc4 >>>>0:03 3/7 0.09 268740 1...g4 2. h4 Bg6 3. Qd2 Nf8 4. >>>> Qe2 a4 5. Nd2 Bxe3 6. fxe3 axb3 >>>> 7. cxb3 >>>>0:06 3/8 0.10 598533 1...g4 2. Nd2 gxh3 3. Bxh3 Qc7 >>>> 4. c4 Bd4 5. Nf5 Nc5 6. Nxh6+ Kg7 >>>>0:10 3/8 0.02 981004 1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 b5 4. >>>> b4 Bd4 5. Qb2 >>>>0:18 4/9 0.15 1798706 1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 Bd4 4. >>>> Qb2 Nb6 5. Rad1 Bxc3 6. Qxc3 >>>>1:10 4/10 0.14 6627204 1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 Bd4 4. >>>> Qb2 Nb6 5. Rad1 Qe7 6. Nf5 Bxf5 >>>> 7. exf5 Bxc3 8. Qxc3 >>>>4:05 5/11 0.11 24328715 1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Qd1 Bd4 4. >>>> c3 Ba7 5. b4 Nb6 6. Qe2 Qd6 7. >>>> Nec4 Nxc4 8. Nxc4 >>>>14:02 6/12 0.03 88355386 1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 Bd4 4. >>>> Qb2 Nc5 5. Nf5 Bxf5 6. exf5 Qd7 >>>> 7. b4 Bxc3 8. Qxc3 Qxd2 9. Qxc5 >>> >>>>I suspect that more interesting would be the analysis of these: >>>> >>>[D]3rr1k1/1p1n1p2/1qp2n1p/p1b1p2b/4P1p1/PP2N1PP/1BP2PB1/R1Q1RNK1 w - - >>>position after g4? >>> >>>DIEP sees this as advantage for white directly from the start: >>> >>>00:00 0 0 56 (0) 1 0.622 h3xg4 Bh5xg4 >>>00:00 0 0 75 (0) 1 0.654 Ne3-f5 >>>00:00 0 0 1065 (0) 2 -2.149 Ne3-f5 Bc5xf2 Kg1-h2 Bf2xe1 Qc1xe1 >>>++ h3-g4 >>>00:00 0 0 1133 (0) 2 0.622 h3xg4 Bh5xg4 >>>00:00 0 0 2459 (173) 3 1.325 h3xg4 Bc5xe3 Nf1xe3 Bh5xg4 >>>00:00 0 0 6277 (363) 4 0.506 h3xg4 Bh5-g6 b3-b4 a5xb4 a3xb4 Bc5xb4 >>>00:00 0 0 25704 (5654) 5 0.966 h3xg4 Bh5-g6 g4-g5 h6xg5 Ne3-c4 >>>00:00 0 0 56414 (11138) 6 0.462 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Ne3xg4 Bh5xg4 Nf1-e3 Nd7-f6 >>>00:02 0 0 204394 (48885) 7 0.460 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Ne3xg4 Bh5xg4 Nf1-e3 h6-h5 Ne3xg4 >>>h5xg4 >>>++ f1-d2 >>>00:03 0 0 343021 (86294) 7 0.696 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5-f8 Ne3-f5 a5-a4 Nd2-c4 >>> >>>00:05 0 0 512604 (116944) 8 0.400 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 Nd2-c4 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Kg8-f8 Bb2-c >>>3 b7-b6 >>>++ h3-g4 >>>00:07 0 0 730577 (186296) 8 0.548 h3xg4 Bh5-g6 b3-b4 a5xb4 a3xb4 Bc5xb4 Ne3-c4 Q >>>b6-c5 Qc1xh6 Qc5xc4 >>>00:25 0 0 2731856 (750383) 9 0.294 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Bg2-h3 Ng4xe3 Nf1xe3 Nd7-f6 Kg1- >>>g2 Bc5xe3 Qc1xe3 Qb6xe3 Re1xe3 >>>++ f1-d2 >>>00:33 0 0 3643383 (1015766) 9 0.506 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 Bb2-c3 a5-a4 b3xa4 Kg8-f8 h3-h >>>4 Bc5-d4 Qc1-b2 Qa7xa4 Bc3xd4 e5xd4 Qb2-b4 Qa4xb4 a3xb4 >>>01:07 0 0 7402451 (2116658) 10 0.291 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5xe3 Re1xe3 g4xh3 Bg2 >>>xh3 Kg8-f8 b4xa5 Nf6-g4 >>>++ b2-c3 >>>02:16 0 0 15253229 (3679456) 10 0.341 Bb2-c3 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Bh5-f3 Nf1-d2 Nf6xe4 B >>>c3xa5 Qb6xa5 Nd2xf3 Kg8-f8 a3-a4 >>>++ f1-h2 >>>02:40 0 0 17870834 (4220380) 10 0.354 Nf1-h2 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Bh5-g6 Bh3xd7 Nf6xd7 N >>>h2-g4 h6-h5 Ng4-h6 Kg8-f8 Nh6-f5 Nd7-f6 >>>++ a3-a4 >>>03:50 0 0 25753917 (6499422) 11 0.354 Nf1-h2 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Bh5-g6 Bh3xd7 Nf6xd7 N >>>h2-g4 h6-h5 Ng4-h6 Kg8-f8 Nh6-f5 Nd7-f6 >>>++ b2-c3 >>>++ f1-d2 >>>06:18 0 0 42810178 (7893075) 11 0.437 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5xe3 Re1xe3 g4xh3 Bg >>>2xh3 Nf6-g4 Bh3xg4 Bh5xg4 Nd2-c4 a5-a4 >>>11:29 0 0 76993736 (11384648) 12 0.437 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5xe3 Re1xe3 g4xh3 B >>>g2xh3 a5-a4 Nd2-c4 Kg8-f8 Bh3xd7 Nf6-d5 >>> >>>[D]3rr1k1/1p1n1p2/1qp2nbp/p1b1p1p1/4P3/PP2N1PP/1BP2PB1/R1Q1RNK1 w - - >>>position after Bg6 >>> >>>Obviously the scores here are the same like the first output produced where >>>diep planned to play Bg6 >> >> >>Not exactly. You were at -.078. That has changed although your score is >>far from "stable" here... It is going up and down significantly, every >>iteration... > >Diep was at -.078 before g4 >after g4 Diep say 0.437 for white because it believes that g4 was a wrong move > >Uri The score is bouncing up and down. That tends to lead me to the conclusion that the program is not sure about what is happening, because the evaluation is not stable.
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