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Subject: Re: is there any chess program supporting fischere-random-chess

Author: Gordon Rattray

Date: 10:50:40 02/03/02

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On February 03, 2002 at 07:03:20, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>On February 03, 2002 at 06:23:17, Uri Blass wrote:
>>I believe that gignatic opening books are counter productive for chess programs.
>
>this is my opinion too.
>therefore i like the idea to start from a different position than our
>classic chess position.
>
>>I saw cases when programs blundered only because of the fact that the move was
>>in book.
>
>exactly what makes me angry too. i have seen SO MANY games played , on
>autoplayers, where the engines had NO influence in the game because of shit
>opening-lines.
>this is not chess. it is arranged chess.
>and arranged chess is NO chess.


I don't disagree with you looking at chess variants because there is some aspect
of chess that you don't like, especially for computer matches.  But I disagree
when you try to make "Fischer random" chess sound more like the genuine article
than classical chess.

Technically speaking, there is only one version of chess - the game outlined by
the traditional rules of chess.  And like it or not, these rules allow openings
to be prepared/memorised beforehand by humans and computers.  It is part of the
game; it always has been; and always should be.

Anyway, I don't believe for one minute that chess is "dead" because the openings
have been "played out".  Maybe Bobby Fischer is running out of new ideas but
thankfully many other players aren't.

I also disagree that getting computers to play Fischer random chess is a good
way to test their strengths at *chess*.  For example, what if a program
understands very well about the pros and cons of a fianchetto bishop.  Such
knowledge won't be so effective in Fischer Random chess because there will be
less opportunities to fianchetto a bishop.  There are many other chunks of
knowledge that don't apply so much in Fischer Random chess, so it's not a good
comparison.  Remember, knowledge is a big part of playing chess, for humans and
computers.

Gordon


>
>here bobby fischer is completely right. this counts for computerchess too.
>
>a game of chess that is arranged, is NO game of chess. it has no competition
>anymore.
>it is dead.
>
>
>
>>I believe that it is better to use a smaller opening book when every move in the
>>book was analyzed by chess programs and not a gignatic opening book.
>
>i see it the same. but chess programmers think different. i wonder why.
>i think they are concentrated to much on WINNING. and they don't care HOW
>to win.
>
>i am interested in seeing the engine WIN from a balanced position.
>i am not interested to see anyone win from a won position.
>
>thats the idea of sports. that the chances are the same for every participant.
>if a soccer match would start with one team having 5 goals in beforehand, nobody
>would like to watch it.
>
>but in chess, or computerchess, we watch the engines replay silly moves out of
>the mind of idiots.
>
>
>>Uri



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